Positive discrimination + Diversity vs No race + Out of Africa

Discussion in 'The Cesspool' started by Ultron, Nov 28, 2017.

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  1. Ultron Registered Senior Member

    I live in an backward EU state, where is practically zero diversity (and subsequently zero positive discrimination), but I have been reading that this is a big topic in USA, where positive discrimination a.k.a. Affirmative action exists on universities and there also big push for diversity in companies, especially in IT companies.

    As I have written I have zero experiences with this, but I just was wondering why just people dont declare themself as what is required. I mean, if universities and companies crave for diversity, why cant for example white heterosexual man declare himself as African American transgender woman? Seems like perfect pitch for IVY universities and leading IT companies, because all of them are probably short on (unpublished) quotas for African American women.

    I understand, that some people would object on actual white male appearance, but what I know, actually there is broad political agreement, that there is no such thing as race and all humans originally came from Africa. So why a white looking person could not declare himself as African American? Also if you say, that you are transgender meaning, that you are man, but feeling to be a woman, how would they prove to you that you are not what do you declare?

    Im just guessing, but maybe the HR departments of companies would be happy with such solution of required quotas because of Federal contracts.
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  3. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Thread title does not represent content. Or possible content.
    No scientific issue or relevance visible.
    False statements throughout ( "but what I know, actually there is broad political agreement, that there is no such thing as race").

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  5. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

    Because fraud?
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  7. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Are you really having trouble working this one out for yourself?

    There's broad scientific agreement. I'm not so sure about broad political agreement.

    Are you really having trouble working out how one might go about verifying that a person is biologically male (if that was relevant)?

    Is this a drive-by provocation, or are you serious?
  8. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    From where would you get the notion that OP was serious?

    I tried "reporting" it, and between deciding that my claim and illustrative example of false statements somehow meant "lies", and requiring more "details" from me in order to be persuaded, the responding moderator apparently didn't see anything of major concern themselves. So that kind of post meets the standard of this forum, apparently. No point in asking if it's serious - of course it isn't, but that doesn't make any difference here.
  9. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Scientists, politicians, truck drivers, and everyone else in America, agree that races exist in America. They are of course not biological races, genetic races, etc - they are sociological races, cultural conventions.

    It's as if one were to divide dogs into breeds based on the color of their fur - the breeds would exist, scientifically even.
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2017
  10. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Who knows whether he is serious? He says he has "zero experience with this".

    If you think he's lying, tell me why.

    I was the moderator who dealt with your report. Your report, like your posts here, contain no evidence that suggests the posters is anything other than genuine.

    I decided to post in this thread to gather some information direct from the source. The issue of whether this "kind of post" meets the standards of the forum remains unresolved at this point. More accurately, as things stand it does not appear to be in breach of any of our posting guidelines, based on the available evidence, so there has been no moderator action on it up to the present time (other than to look at it and to consider the report you filed). You were invited to provide any additional supporting evidence of the "false statements" you allege. You are yet to do so. Note that I have already acknowledged the factually incorrect claim that was made regarding political agreement about race.

    To summarise, you have failed to establish the intent that you allege Ultron has. I'm not saying it's not there, just that there are currently insufficient grounds for moderator action on this thread, as things stand.
    exchemist likes this.
  11. birch Valued Senior Member

    It's not about actual race. if you are discriminated based on the superficial and one is "appearance", as in belonging to a certain social/ethnic group, then that is why those quotas are set up.

    if you have the 'look' of someone who is not a much discriminated group, there would be no need for you to identify as such for equal opportunity, would you? in fact, you may be favored belonging to a certain ethnic group.

    the problem with racial discrimination is it's not based on actual competency.

    here is a novel idea. how about doing away with racial quotas altogether? no checkmarks for race just based on actual criteria. but then again, when people have to make decisions that affect other people's lives, their personal preferences and prejudices can influence their choices.

    Most subjective judgements are based on interviews and the personality, preferences, idiosyncrasies, politics etc of the interviewer vs the interviewee is what affects conclusions, therefore decisions. I think for most situations, this either should be eliminated or rarely be the actual make or break of decisions because it'a almost always ridiculously biased.
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2017
  12. Bells Staff Member

    The issue with your post is that you view affirmative action, for example as being 'positive discrimination.

    Firstly, there's no such thing as positive discrimination.

    Secondly, affirmative action laws are in place to ensure things like racial discrimination, do not continue to disadvantage minorities when applying to institutions like university.

    Nothing is "required".

    Why would he lie declare himself to be a person? Something something about appropriation and dishonesty to ensure and protect the status quo applies here.

    The reason it is short on 'quota's' is because they aren't let in. Many are directly discriminated against, particularly in IT companies. So what quota would they be meeting, when they do not generally hire women and certain minority groups to begin with?

    I honestly do not know if you are deliberately being obtuse, or whether you are like this by accident...

    I mean, shouldn't the answer to your questions be obvious?

    Your suggestion would only ensure further segregation based on sex and the colour of one's skin and it would only ensure that more and more minorities and women are kept out of those universities and employment in IT companies, for example.

    Unless that is your true intent?
  13. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Except for directly referring to the post itself, which is short enough to read easily, and quoting an example of a false claim made within it - chosen for its illustratively blatant absurdity, and it's role in the "argument".
    Anyone who reads the post with normal comprehension. What does he have to do, use "nigger" four times as a pejorative?
    What's up with the fixation on "lying"? Twice now. I did not use that word, or make that claim.
    So we can add to this:
    some new information: That OP is ok with the local moderation, and meets forum standards, because they can't tell whether or not it's an accident.
  14. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member


    If the thread had progressed after the opening post, things might have been different. As things stand, there's no sign of Ultron after the first post, so this thread will most likely just die a natural death.
  15. Bells Staff Member

    Mod Note

    The fact that two staff members, one senior, responded to his OP, and did so by expressive absolute revulsion for what he was saying, should be enough of an indication that it is not okay with local moderation.

    That we are literally obliged to double check, you know, for fairness, before we go apeshit and start banning, for example, should not come as any surprise to anyone.

    It is fairly obvious that he has no intention to return to the thread.

    So, thread closed and sent to its rightful place in the Cesspool.
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