Discussion in 'World Events' started by sculptor, Jul 4, 2018.
How much blame does the US share in the current crisis in Poland?
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none poland fucked up all on its own. its roots has more to do with russian aggression and eastern european history and geopolitics than the US.
Poland has never had a full grown democratic tradition. Very few countries in eastern Europe have.
The German aggression has had lasting effects, as well.
that it has but in the national psyche its dwarfed by russia. in the thought processes germany only plays into as being a major player in the eu. its viewed as a cultural threat only. russia is viewed as wanting to erase poland of the map.
Any location that exists as a small buffer zone crammed between two or more superpowers tends to have a long history of "current crisis". As a small strip between Germany and Russia (or their historical equivalents), it is a piece of territory that always seems to be the place where things get nasty when the status quo of east/west Europe politics get wound up. As such, US involvement, for better or worse, is part of a larger picture of current east/west Europe tensions.
Given the uncharacteristic long period of peace in the region, most would say US involvement was a good result, for that reason alone. The only other historical contender for extended peace would be during Roman times, where similar vast advantages in logistics, technology and manpower made any idea of upsetting the status quo a bad idea on account of the threat of swift consequences that would be delivered.
As we move in to an age where the superpower status of the US is diminishing or at least getting redefined, it remains to be seen how events in this crisis ridden piece of geography will play out.
You weren't mentioning a specific crisis of Poland, but if you were talking about the resurgence of rightwing politics, that has more direct links to EU integration, of which the (diminishing) power clout of the US as an ally is indirect.
IOW if you want to play the US as a contributer to problems in the region, its more the case of a superpower gradually leaving the scene so the traditional geography/political problems resurface.
The national psyche is one thing. The effects of the German occupation in WWII include more than psychological harm.
Why would anyone seek to blame America for this crisis in the first place?
You don't pay attention, do you? The last Ice Age, the coming collision of Andromeda and the Milky Way, all are the fault of the US. So why not this, too?
While you present completely legitimate reasons to blame the US, I suspect this isn't the answer Sculptor was looking for. Perhaps he'd like to clarify? Are people even allowed to start topics here where they don't contribute anything in the OP or subsequent posts, but still try to steer everyone else towards having a certain dialogue?
while thats true it has nothing to do with the current crisis in poland. the effects have to a large extent have been erased. to the polish people its dealing with russia that's the issue. i take it you've never been to poland or talk a pole.
That is not possible.
The shadow of WWII still spooks the US, even - with nothing like the reminders on the landscape, or the cultural and political voids, faced by the Poles.
I have never been to Poland. I have talked to Poles. I have heard a Pole - first generation immigrant - blame the economic hardships of Poland on "the Jews" - in iirc about 2001. He meant Jewish people living in Poland, in big cities. I have yet to hear any Pole blame any of Poland's troubles on a lack of Jews - although I don't run into that many first or second generation Polish immigrants.
Not America per se - certain people who live in America.
Big-nosed space lizards, I take it? Bernie Sanders?
Was it just a few Jews in big Polish cities he was blaming, or all 20 of them?
The Jewish communities of eastern Europe were devastated. In 1933, Poland had the largest Jewish population in Europe, numbering over three million. By 1950 the Jewish population of Poland was reduced to about 45,000.
Above from https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005687
I've read that virtually all of those 45,000 survivors were subsequently expelled by the communists who took over after the war. They must have left powerful ghosts behind to have such a devastating impact on Poland's ability to get its act together.
I was referring to the assault on the judiciary.
Did US/nato intervention lead to the current rule by the law and justice party?
Seems more like general dissatisfaction with the status quo and a stagnating economy led to their rise, but maybe someone else can shed more light on it.
Dunno. I've found it best not to press such explanations for details.
It's the same policy one applies when hearing about the Rich New York Liberal Wall Street Bankers leading us toward Socialism through Government Regulation. Who exactly those people are supposed to be is best left unexamined in social circumstances, one's inner coward insists.
Meanwhile, a letter to Americans from American explainers from the recent past:
Apparently some Poles formed a Republican Party, and it found a way to gain a 50%+ House majority with about 38% voter support, after which it could bust out the country:
In case anyone has any uncertainties about the current US administration's take on Poland's slide: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/05/world/europe/poland-trump-visit-g20.html
never said ww2 did still have an effect i said the germans effect is still large over. its the soviet betrayel and invansion that loom in the minds of the polish people when thinking of world war 2
im a third gen polish immigrant also my brother was in poland for a month or so a while back and got a chance to talk to people there when the counter missile crisis was going on. every viewed it as russia up to its old trick again.
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