Please save the tigers

Discussion in 'Earth Science' started by Chatha, Nov 17, 2006.

  1. Walter L. Wagner Cosmic Truth Seeker Valued Senior Member

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    It's not tigers per se, but the concept of keeping examples of all species in the wild. It promotes conservation of species, elimination of extinction of species. The reason we don't want species to go extinct is because we haven't yet figured out every possible beneficial use of every species. Many such beneficial uses are anticipated, though they cannot be predicted for any particular species. We've only just scratched the surface of the drugs that can be obtained from plants and animals.

    Besides, from aesthetic considerations, future generations will want to enjoy seeing animals in the wild, not just in a zoo. It is inspring, to say the least. And in the future, travel between the continents will be cheap and easy, compared to the previous centuries.
     
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  3. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    Predators are absolutely essential for maintaining a balanced ecosystem. Without them we would not have anything like the lives that we have. We owe them. They are also good friends. Humanity needs all the friends it can get.
     
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  5. valich Registered Senior Member

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    Taiwan is a major financial supporter/backer/supplier for the poaching of the lions, tigers, elephants, and rhinos in Africa just to get the useless aphrodisiacs and psuedo-medicines to support their anxious sexual virulence, and also to support the traditional art of carving ivory.
     
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  7. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    "Sexual virulence" is a good play on words.
     
  8. Chatha big brown was screwed up Registered Senior Member

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    I don't know...Maybe cause they belong there?

    Just because you don't want to go to India doens't mean you should pay poachers to capture them for you. Besides there are many other animals the average person hasn't seen

    Its neither good nor bad, that's not the issue. The issue is that Tigers belong in the wild. This thread is to make aware that some people are also poaching Tigers and selling to the highest biddder. Granted, we know that many are also captured for medicine and fur for the natives, but that is an isolated problem at best, and can be handled by the Indian conservation authority...That is of cause those members that haven't been bought by millionaires. There is just no reason why so many Tigers should be in Western countries, and in cages for that matter. If Tigers were introduced into the wild in America I wouldn't bother, in fact that would be a very good idea, but the poor creatures are in cages and fed food in cages.
     
  9. Chatha big brown was screwed up Registered Senior Member

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    Taiwan and China are major assholes. They are eventually going to make the Tiger extinct and when they do this is what is going to happen.

    --Western Nations

    --Asian and India community

    --WWF
     
  10. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    There is no need for anyone to pay poachers to capture tigers in the wild. Tigers that have been bred in captivity abound in America, China, and Thailand, to name the places that I know of.

    There is a reason why so many tigers should be in Western countries. It is because there are many people in Western countries who can keep them in safety and comfort and raise healthy tigers, while in their native lands it is impossible to stop poaching. The only efforts that I will contribute to are the efforts to breed them in captivity, for this very reason.

    The "poor creatures" are kept in cages? You should wish for so sweet a deal. Why does everyone who comes around saying save the tigers get all upset about them being in the care of humans? How do you get into this mental state, where you want the tigers to be saved, but practical efforts to save the tigers are a crime? If I were a millionaire, there is nothing that I could do to stop poaching. I don't poach. I could buy tigers that are bred in captivity, make them nice places to live, and breed them. Then they will be saved, fed, and happy.

    Chatha, what are you accomplishing and what do you intend to accomplish? You don't like people keeping tigers in captivity, I take it, and you might help push a ban on the activity. What then have you accomplished except to force the destruction of more tigers? I reject the idea that tigers benefit from dying right and left as more of them lose their homes and the law forces people to have them killed. I reject people who encourage this. People who say "save the tigers" and force owners to stop keeping them are very unclear on the concept of "save the tigers."
     
  11. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    In fact, it's animal rights people who will make the tiger extinct. Private owners have been doing just fine.
     
  12. Chatha big brown was screwed up Registered Senior Member

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    Interesting, and these efforts have resulted in the extinction of over 4 Tiger species in just 100 years....................right?


    http://staging.nfwf.org/AM/Template...bsiteKey=47dd0746-713c-4bee-a9b6-a92ed20a9dd0

    --Save the Tiger Fund web
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2006
  13. Chatha big brown was screwed up Registered Senior Member

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    Listen, there are lots of well off places and well off individuals in Asia that can cater and breed captive Tigers. Stop trying to make excuses for the West. Enough people in Asia already keep captive Tigers, the last thing we need is the whole world having a piece of the pie. I am not after anything, Tigers belong in the wild. Stop trying to dribble your way out of the mess the specie is in. If you introduce Tigers to the American wild, I wouldn't give a fuck, In fact I would be happier. I am in support of anything that protects their spirit, well being, on longevity. 4 Tigers have been extinct in the past 100 years, leaving 6 species left. In another 100 years another 4 species may be extinct.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tigers
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2006
  14. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    Chatha, the "drivel" comes from the people who don't want Americans to keep tigers. There are a lot of well-off Americans who can keep and breed tigers, who won't let them be killed for meat, fur, or body parts.

    I think it's wrong to be so worried that the tigers are in captivity. Many of them have places that are quite comfortable, humans who love them, plenty of food, maybe even too much food, and a higher individual chance of survival. A whiny, grating voice does not make your side of the argument any less wrong about this. You're so worried and you wring your hands so much about these animals, and you will push to have them exterminated, and you are wrong about all of this.

    The West doesn't need excuses. Private owners who breed tigers are doing the right thing and need no excuses.
     
  15. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    When you read the NPR article, you find out that the farms want to use tigers that die natural deaths. It makes a lot of sense. Tigers live a finite length of time. When you have thousands of tigers you have hundreds of tigers dying natural deaths every year, of old age and other causes. When that happens, disposing of the carcasses is a problem. So you sell them to the knacker's, the parts are taken from the carcasses and distributed legally at a far lower price than are parts of poached tigers, and the demand for poached tigers vanishes. The prices of farmed tiger parts will be lower even though the farmers have to take care of them all their lives because they will no longer be sold at black market prices.

    IFAW and other such organizations make millions of dollars in donations saying that private owners of animals are bad. Admitting that good things can come from private ownership would kill a lot of their income, or shift their demographic, or maybe they just can't risk it because their careers have been built on building hatred for people who keep animals.
     
  16. Chatha big brown was screwed up Registered Senior Member

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    Is that right? So who are the same people who manufacture fur coats from animals? Rich Corporate Americans. Not all Americans give a rats ass about poaching, and not all American Tiger owners give a rats ass about poaching for that matter. Besides the arguement is stupid, its like telling people to close the gates of Tiger heaven after you have had yourself a helpful serving inside it. The premise is pointless. The point is that all Poaching needs to stop, its illegal. Might doesn't make right. The usual might makes right arguement is the same reason why 4 tigers have been extinct in 100 years.

    Its sort of like somebody killing your mother and tells you that you have a lump sum of insurance money waiting for you. Would you smile at the person?

    Doing the right thing? Give me a break. Every year about 100 different species of living organism disappear from the face of the Earth, this includes plants and animals. Nobody is ever going to save every specie, but we conviniently save the ones we like. So there is no such thing is doing nature a favor, more like...doing us a favor. There is also a huge market for certain animals, and certain Americans are just as involved. Fur, medicine, and art are the usuals.
     
  17. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    So you want to say that it's like killing my mother? Then by your measures, killing my tiger is like killing my mother. You want to go there? I will drag you through the mud all the way there.
     
  18. Chatha big brown was screwed up Registered Senior Member

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    Yes, I wish that was the same problem everywere. Just Last week I saw on TV, an American couple who bought two cubs for some bullshit save the tiger program in their back yard. And of cause circus performers like to use old dying Tigers for their performance. Yes, you are right.

    like I said you are right. You have just solved the Tiger problem.

    STOP with the private owner will ya, you are encouraging people. I am not saying that private ownership is bad, but there are thousands of Tigers with private owners. Too much of anything is not good. Besides if private owners have so much money to keep exotic animals why didn't they keep elephants? Aha...so you see the convinience? Besides, if you know anything about Tigers, Tigers don't belong in Temperate regions. Tigers breed year round in Tropics and breed seasonaly in temperate regions. These are part of the problems with Tigers Trafficking, but people won't tell you this.Tigers breed throughout their lives regardless of age, they give birth to 2-3 fragile cubs at a time, and live longer in the wild. If you want me to gather the facts......?
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2006
  19. Chatha big brown was screwed up Registered Senior Member

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    Oh please...put a cock in it...you haven't said anything meaningful for a while now. You said putting a Tiger in a cage and feeding him makes all the difference in the world, and I said that was ludacris, Tigers have a mind or will, and they would rather be free. Putting one in a cage is like "killing" his spirit and what he is known for. Besides, Tigers are cats, and all cats would rather hunt for their food than have it contaminated by humans and handed to them. Have you ever had a pet cat?
     
  20. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    How on Earth can thousands of tigers in private hands be too much? You're the one who is pushing the ideas of an organization that claims to want to save the tigers. There are thousands of people who own tigers and keep them alive, so they are saved. What more do you want? You don't deserve it.

    All of you people who argue causes like this want everything exactly your way or the other person is an idiot or a criminal. I most certainly have been making sense. You saying that I haven't is just your way of denying the truth.

    You want to judge that a certain number is too many and put a stop to it? You want to save the tigers. How many living tigers are too many for you?
     
  21. Chatha big brown was screwed up Registered Senior Member

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    Lets Keep asking ourselves that while Tigers keep fading away

    For every one Tiger that survives in private, 3 Tigers survive perfectly in the wild. Tigers live longer and better in wild, virtually all living things do. Poaching Tigers to be sold to private people is just as rampant as poaching for fear or medicine. In fact Tiger conservatories are very well organized today, so poaching for medicine is very limited to none, especially since the introduction of modern medicine in the same region. Indian conservationists have made efforts to replace traditional medicine with modern ones, and if they haven't that shouldn't necessarily be a problem.

    Are you fucking crazy? Because I am beginning to doubt your intelligence. Tigers belong in the wild, American wild or Indian wild, I don't care which one, just do the natural thing.

    I don't want to judge anything, all I want is the prosperity of the animals. First you said private owners are saving Tiger. Saving them exactly from what? Saving from what? Is caging going to save Tigers? What is the point of life if you are kept in a cage? Can you answer these simple questions?
     
  22. Chatha big brown was screwed up Registered Senior Member

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    Listen, I agree caging Tigers is a way to save Tigers. But there are even better ways. All over Africa there are natural game and wild life reserves. The reserves are so big that you wouldn't even know the ecology was in an enclosure. This is how to save endangered animals, not fitting them in your backyard you ignorant idiot. I've had it with these fuckin stupid idiots that try to dribble their way into silly ideas because of their own issue or low I.Q. There are plenty of natural reserves in India, there has been for years, but somehow Tigers keep ending up misisng. This is what we need to squarely address
     
  23. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    Private owners are squarely addressing the issue that natural reserves cannot be effectively protected from poachers. The "even better way" is the one that works, not the one that suits your ideology, which only allows solutions that are politically correct without regards to whether they work or not.

    India's preserves aren't working. There may be as many as ten times as many tigers in the United States. Private ownership has succeeded where the preserves have failed. It is working right now in spite of all the efforts of IFAW.

    If fitting them into our backyards, our basements, and our society is the only way to save them, and I contend that it is, then so be it and we work with that. Damn right I will encourage them. What they do works. What IFAW does gets more of them killed, and it's on purpose. There is no way that they do not know that their bans get animals killed.

    People need to get their heads on straight and reject the kind of nonsense that comes from people like you, Chatha. IFAW says that it's inhumane to feed the tigers within large enclosures and have tourists watch them eat? Well of course IFAW will say stupid things like that. Its income depends on saying stupid things like that. People will learn that when you try to please animal rights activists, it isn't happening. They can't be pleased no matter what you do. People will learn to lock animal rights activists out of our business so that we can actually save the animals.
     

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