Discussion in 'Free Thoughts' started by valich, Dec 10, 2006.
Is a dog really a child, or is it just a dog? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
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You can tell to a parent that his/her child is ugly or stupid, they take much less offense than telling the same thing to a dogowner about his/her dog.
try it ifyou don't believe me..
a dog owner puts more value on you can go to a store and buy? Good dog owner, lousy parent.
Maybe they value being owners because they can do just about whatever they want with a dog. And you can always have it killed at the vet.
I can't have my kids neutered/spayed. I can't have them bred. I can't have them put down. I can't crop a part of their body off. I can't pick and choose a baby at the hospital for one I like the features/temperament of. I can't shut them up in a crate. I can't make them sleep outside.
But the incidence is extremely low. As I pointed out earlier (figures which I found in our Resident Dog Crank James's own article), far more Americans are killed by bees or lighting than by dogs. Dogs kill twenty people a year. The "category" this puts them into is called "unfortunate but trivial."
Get a grip on yourselves, people. Worry about something imporant!
Thousands of children are killed every year in auto accidents, and many of those accidents are caused by uncaring parents driving around with bad tires, brakes and alignment. Why don't you all start a Crank Campaign to do something about that? Every time you see someone pull a child out of a car that is obviously poorly maintained, why don't you go over and start yelling abusively at them? Or maybe pour sugar into their gas tank so they can never drive that car again. That will save a lot more lives than getting cranky about pitbulls.
Americans just absolutely SUCK at it.
Fraggle, your rant places you firmly in the category of those who aren't interested in change for the better, however small.
Sorry we couldn't hand you world peace on a silver platter, pal.
Why would I do something so superficial and callous? The parent would be wise to avoid such a buffoon.
That speaks volumes of the dog owner and little of the dog.
In either case, the child and the dog are irrelevant. It is the dog owner who is an idiot. Should such people be in the care of dangerous animals?
It is difficult for me to decide about the personalities, agendas, knowledge level, et cetera of those who want to ban Pit Bulls.
I suspect that many of them have very little knowledge relating to the breeding & training of dogs. It would be difficult to enforce a ban on so-called Pitt Bulls. Let us suppose that such laws could be passed and enforced, almost totally eliminating the Pitt Bulls. \What would be the consequences?
The anti-social types who now buy & train vicious Pitt Bulls would start buying & training other types of dogs to replace them. I can think of Shepherds, Rottweilers, Dobermans, & Mastiffs which could easily be trained to replace Pitt Bulls. I am sure there are several other breeds which would also be appropriate.
Then I guess there would be laws passed to ban these breeds. Now it would take 5-10 generations to train less aggressive types to be aggressive. I think Standard Poodles were once some type of hunting dogs, and I am sure that there are lots of dog-types with the potential to be bred into fighting dogs.
It makes me wonder if some of those who want to ban Pitt Bulls are dog haters who want to get rid of dogs in general. I am sure that one long term consequence of enforceable bans on highly aggressive breeds would be the elimination of a very large number of dog breeds, mostly those which are the size of Collies & Shepherds or bigger.
I wonder how effectively such laws could be enforced. We seem to be allowing a lot of dangerous drunk drivers (& cell phone users) to drive cars causing lots of deaths & injuries to innocent people.
See that is why nothing gets done.
The problem with trying to make a "small change for the better" is that you invariably fuck up a lot of much larger things and the net result is WORSE. And of course this phenomenon gets even uglier when you throw up your hands in impotence and trust civil servants, the people who work for the Employer of Last Resort, to find a bureaucratic solution to your problem. Not only will all but about seven people end up unhappier than they started, but EVERYONE will end up poorer and with their rights curtailed.
For starters, it's almost impossible to identify a pitbull. Their breeding and commerce has been moved over to the black market, the invariable and predictable consequence of government intervention in the economy. Nobody has AKC or UKC registration anymore and no one even keeps their own community's pedigree papers, at least not where you can find them. Without seeing the bloodlines you can't tell if you're looking at a Pit, or at one of the breeds that were hybridized to created the pitbull in the first place like a Staffie, a Bull Terrier or an American Staffie, or at a hybrid of one or more of those breeds with each other or with some other gene pool. I'm a dog breeder and I have at least some experience in recognizing the conformation standards of the various breeds, and I'm often not certain whether the dog I'm staring at is a pitbull.
When someone gets bitten by a dog, who do they send out to investigate? Someone who knows dogs? Someone who even knows them as poorly as I do? No! An incompetent swaggering thug (AKA "cop") whose only priority is to make sure that somebody gets busted so he can fill his quota--or that somebody pays him off. Most of the articles I've ever seen on pitbull attacks that had any pretense of authority admitted that cops and even animal control officers call an attacking dog a pitbull if it looks halfway like one, because then nobody's going to believe the owner's protests and it will be easier to close the case if everyone assumes it's "yet another pitbull attack."
I don't like pitbulls. Not because they attack people a whole lot more often than other dogs do, which they don't, but because they DO attack DOGS a whole lot more often than other dogs do. My friends with pitbulls warn me not to bring my dogs over. When I see one being walked I pick my dogs up and carry them, and then cross the street. But of course that REAL problem gets zero attention, because people like you irrationally focus on the FANTASY problem of widespread attacks on humans.
Pitbulls were bred to be fighting dogs and they were not bred with the instinct to attack humans. That would be absurd because humans have to handle them. They were bred with the instinct to attack other dogs. Since no matter how responsible a dog owner you are, your dog WILL manage to get out of his yard once every year or two, if that happens to be the same day a pitbull gets out of HIS yard, you might end up with a dead dog.
By pushing pitbulls underground, you screaming mimis make it impossible for us to know where they are, so we don't know if there's a threat in our neighborhood. Not to our CHILDREN, who are more likely to be killed by bees or lightning, but to our DOGS.
That's what's wrong with IRRATIONAL RISK ANALYSIS.
I'm not looking for peace on a silver platter. I'm looking for reason from a man who claims to be a scientist, and I'm disappointed when I don't get it.
You want to bereave or at least inconvenience thousands of responsible pitbull owners in order to save about ten people killed by pitbulls a year--which cannot even be reliably identified as pitbulls--which is irrational risk management. And you want us to knuckle under to still more stifling, cost-ineffective regulation by the Nanny State, which is about as irrational as an American can get, regardless of the reason.
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was there a point hidden there somewhere?
You don't have to participate in the debate, if you don't think it is important or have something more important to do.
Now excuse me while I go and work on worldpeace...
Really??? There are laws against wolf/dog mixes an it is really hard to tell the difference sometimes so the rule is: if it looks like a wolf, it is a wolf.
Interestingly a dozen other countries have no problem telling which one is a pitbull, so this is a lame ass excuse.
By the way you can run a dog DNA test for $50...
Sorry, I didn't have the patience to read the rest of your rant. You talk too much and take this issue too emotionally...
sorry, I looked and looked, but I couldn't find where I said that. What post was it??Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
#303 but it isn't important.
My point was that dogowners are more sensitive than parents.
You can spay/neuter, breed, and put your kids too sleep, if you make up a good enough reason to do so. You can lock your kids up in a crate I don't believe there's a law against it and you can make them sleep in the backyard and I don't think there's a law against that either. You're obviously not an animal lover so you don't understand how people who are animal lovers feel about their pets.
You can be an animal lover without feeling they are on the same level as your children.
My kids come before my dog.
Pit bull are actually not bred to show aggression towards humans, they were bred to be very clode to humans, just aggressive to dogs. In addition, they have actually scored higher than golden retrievers in temperment testings. Goldens were 84% and pit bulls were 86%. I believe that the BSL does shit.
If you want to buy a pit bull, get it from a good breeder who has a pedigree of the dog not being related to any fighting dogs.
Not necessarily, but if the dog owners community cannot manage themselves properly, then laws get laid down for the group as a whole.
Identification of any animal that is considered dangerous is necessary, not just pitbulls.
That would explain your rant. I have found there are few people, other than professionals who can handle dogs responsibly. The public at large certainly cannot, hence the problem.
You're starting to sound like a conspiracy theorist.
I don't believe any animals that pose a threat to attacking people should be kept as pets. Again, the public has demonstrated they cannot uphold that responsibility.
Or, a dead child.
You're chasing a strawman, now.
I was going to say the same thing about you, Fraggle, as you're demonstrating an emotional bias in your argument, as you claim to be a dog breeder.
Where as you may consider there are "thousands of responsible pitbull owners" I would disagree, there are few at best. In fact, I witness daily the irresponsibility of dog owners everywhere. Like you, they have great attachment towards their dog and don't see it a threat in any way.
Once again, this boils down to the dog owning community at large who are for the most part irresponsible to own dogs. If they are unable to manage themselves without the emotional bs attached, then they'd probably have their freedoms.
All dogs should be banned, except the ones used for specific tasks like helping blind people and disarming bombs.
Separate names with a comma.