Pilot who flew 2 planes used on 911 doesn't believe official Story

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience Archive' started by Ganymede, Sep 18, 2007.

  1. nirakar ( i ^ i ) Registered Senior Member

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    Welcome B1900Mech. Post #120, your first post was interesting.





    Below posted by a user named Michael Hogan: May 21 2006, 07:32 PM at http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=6819&st=15&p=63067&#entry63067
     
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  3. MacGyver1968 Fixin' Shit that Ain't Broke Valued Senior Member

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    While I suspect this is a "drive-by troofing"..... The Vne for a 767 is 360 knots which is 414 mph...you seem to have forgotten the units. The first plane was estimated to be traveling at 435 mph, the second at 560. Anyway, the terrorists weren't too worried about exceeding Vne..they just aimed the planes at the buildings at pushed the throttle to max. You yourself have said that planes are certified for 150% over max. That would be 621 mph. I'm just curious...what smells "rotten in Denmark"? They didn't release the FDR's data because the FDR's were never found or were too badly damaged in the mountain of debris. What data could they cook? The planes speed can be estimated just from video analysis.

    What exact point are you trying to make?
     
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  5. MacGyver1968 Fixin' Shit that Ain't Broke Valued Senior Member

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    Yes...another "Schwinn by troofing"
     
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  7. jonte92 Registered Senior Member

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    fockers sprewin sh#t hea.9/11 was a conspiracy.END OF STORY
     
  8. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    That's boo, and that's yah. Boo-yah.

    fock no it weren't fockin rats with c&cks this b!g END OF THE TALE HOMES!
     
  9. phlogistician Banned Banned

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  10. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

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    Hype, commercial planes don't start coming apart just because they exceed VNE.

    Above VNE heavy turbulence and rapid control inputs might possibly deform/break the structure, but there was no indication of heavy turbulence (it was clear cool, relatively still Sept morning air) and we do have videos of both of the run ins to the towers and there were no abrupt moves, and it's clear from the videos that the flexing of the wings, was nowhere near what it takes to break one of them:

    What it takes to break the wing of a modern jet liner:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ai2HmvAXcU0

    All the flight paths have been released.

    http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB196/index.htm

    Nothing done that morning required inordinate skill, or certainly nothing above what their training suggested they should have been capable of.

    Arthur
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2011
  11. Repo Man Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, it was a conspiracy among a group of men from the middle east, chiefly composed of Saudi Nationals. This is not in dispute.
     
  12. sifreak21 Valued Senior Member

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    kinda funny that you with absolutly 0 experience flying take the news story over a vet. pilot when someone credible with alot experience says its not possible then its not
     
  13. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

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    Well I have plenty of flying experience and those claims that it was not possible to fly the planes like they were, were based on nothing but made up BS.

    The flight paths have been produced and it's clear that there was no overly difficult flying done that day.

    Similar BS Claims, like one posted in this thread and at other Troofer sites: that it is physically impossible to fly a 200,000-lb airliner 20 feet above the ground at 400 MPH. are frankly silly.

    Arthur
     
  14. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Of the pilots I know, not one thinks the training described for the pilots named was adequate for the maneuvers performed - even for the towers, let alone the military level skill exhibited in the Pentagon approach.

    There were of course many other sources of training available, that the US government would have preferred to conceal for ordinary reasons - the Saudi military, Pakistani military, etc - and no grand "inside job" style conspiracy is indicated.

    As far as "conspiracy", all that is indicated is a presumption that the W administration's slacking on security was perhaps somewhat on purpose, opened a window for a vaguely comprehended exploit of uncertain scope but possibly welcome opportunity. That accounts for all the circumstantial evidence and most of the speculative considerations.
     
  15. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

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    Then you don't know many pilots.
    The Pentagon approach was nothing more than one big descending circle, pretty much the simplest maneuver one can fly.

    Total BS.
    The US is the main destination in the world for pilot training in Commercial jets.
    They had plenty of training, including simulator training to do the modest maneuvers they performed that day.


    Total BS.

    No security was slack that day, normal procedures were followed up and down the line, and there is absolutely nothing to indicate Bush or his admin was in any way complicit in 9/11.

    Arthur
     
  16. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Uh, sure. You bet.

    Given reasonable odds I'd put money against a pilot with no more experience than alleged for that guy even finding the Pentagon from the air with that airplane, reliably.
    Not even in the official accounts is there any mention of training in such maneuvers.
    Security had been slack for months, and was not tightened even after direct warnings. The close relationship between W's administration and various Saudis, including Bin Laden's family and other terrorist connected ones, was only made more obvious in the aftermath of the event. And so forth.
     
  17. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

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    Again, total BS based on lack of knowledge.
    Hani Hanjour, the hijacking pilot of the AA77 had a Commercial Pilot license. Which means he had hundreds of flight hours. Even so, the majority of the flight back to DC was flown on Autopilot (pg 4) and finding Regan Natl, which is right next to the Pentagon, is no harder than dialing a single number into your Nav and navigation to distant airports is one of the first things you learn how to do when learning to fly.

    http://www.ourairports.com/navaids/...lon=-77.05235481262207,zoom=14,type=Satellite

    The Pentagon would have been obvious on the clear morning and after it was spotted he made a single descending turn followed by a straight run into the side of the Pentagon. Descending turns and straight and level flight are obvious maneuvers someone with a Commercial Pilot license can easily do. (page 5). The other flights into the Towers didn't even involve a descending turn. (Atta on AA-11 and Marwan al-Shehhi on UA 175 both had a Commercial License (CL has a minimum 250 hours of flight time as Pilot) and both had hundreds of hours in a commercial jet simulator)

    http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB196/doc02.pdf
    http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB196/doc03.pdf
    http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB196/doc01.pdf

    Again, BS, No difficult maneuvers beyond what you learn in the first dozen or so hours of flight instruction were flown that day. Turns are the first thing you learn after learning how to fly straight and level. Put it in perspective, most new pilots learn to fly SOLO pretty quickly, meaning before being turned loose by themselves they have to demonstrate the ability to reliably recover from unusual attitudes, get out of a stall or spin, take off, climb, turn while climbing, hold straight and level flight, perform a level turn, track straight in a cross wind, perform a descending turn and land the plane in one piece. Most can do it in about 10-12 hours of flight training. The highjacker pilots all had their Commercial ticket and more than 250 hours of flight training including plenty of advanced simulator training.

    Total unadulterated BS, not worthy of a response.

    As to security, the fact is before September 11th, 2001, no U.S. flagged aircraft had been bombed or hijacked in over a decade. Yet the airlines had been warned, but pre-9/11 the FAA did not control security checkpoints, the Airlines did. Still:

    Arthur
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2011
  18. hypewaders Save Changes Registered Senior Member

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    Last edited: Dec 15, 2011
  19. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

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    Which simply shows graphically what I posted months ago:

    The Pentagon would have been obvious on the clear morning and after it was spotted he made a single descending turn followed by a straight run into the side of the Pentagon. Descending turns and straight and level flight are obvious maneuvers someone with a Commercial Pilot license can easily do.
     
  20. Syzygys As a mother, I am telling you Valued Senior Member

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    It would be interesting to make a reality show where they train people using the Microsoft flight simulator and minimal pro training and see how they do it with the big bird. There would be backlash from a certain part of the viewership, but people would watch it anyway.
    For incentives, the best pilot would get a decent prize...

    My other idea is to take an older (getting out of commission) airplane really high than aim at the ground and see how much left after it hits the ground...
     
  21. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

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    Just to be clear, this situation does not describe the 9/11 hijackers.

    The highjacker pilots all had their Commercial ticket and more than 250 hours of flight training including plenty of advanced simulator training in these type of aircraft (NOT MS Flight Sim, but the ones Airline pilots use).
     
  22. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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