Personality types

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by birch, Sep 21, 2017.

  1. LaurieAG Registered Senior Member

    You don't appear familiar with how the MB-TI and DISC Personal Profile systems were developed and how they are used.
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  3. birch Valued Senior Member


    here is a link for recruitment. do you believe these tests cannot be used outside of a recruitment process? do you believe it can only be used in one setting or for a certain purpose?

    a personality test is just that, a personality test. how they were developed, why and how they "can" be used is another matter.

    of all tests, a personality test would be easiest to take and nearly foolpoof as far as needing no controls unlike at home (out of business or academia) iq tests, for instance, which would need to account for time limits and cheating.

    contrary to what you think, there are no 'good, 'bad' or 'wrong' or 'right' answers to the myers brigg personality test. there is little reason for anyone to lie on these tests, especially for personal use.

    if you had known what overperform or underperform actually was then you would have explained what they are but evidently you don't know but assume you know more than someone else but refuse to explain it.

    the only thing about overperform and underperform categories are asking the same questions in different ways to detect inconsistency or consistency but that's not completely foolproof either. all it can indicate is a lack of consistency or even compartmental thinking which is not indicative of much or gives much insight. it doesn't always indicate intentional dishonesty. that is probably why it was removed as it doesn't give much insight into 'personality' either if it's structured as only positive or negative so other categories were added to advance this process. people's personalities are not just good or bad or neither black or white. it's complex.

    from your own link:

    "In very early versions there were Underperform and Overperform patterns which identified when the person being tested had selected all of the 'bad' or 'good' options respectively.

    The DISC assessment tool progressed to identify 15 patterns (behavioral styles). In the most recent advanced versions of DISC, many more patterns (behavioral styles) are identified."
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2018
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  5. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    You don't know with them, either - aside from the obvious, that the value of the evaluations depends entirely on their interpretation and the assumptions behind their use. That's a problem, but you should know you have it regardless.

    And if you are using language such as "good" or "bad" to describe responses, the suspicion is you aren't paying attention to that problem.
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2018
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  7. birch Valued Senior Member


    i agree with most of his interpretation and that is that intj's are intuitive, not scientific masterminds.

    but in a nutshell, from my perspective, it's impetus is idealism. the ones linked in the op, from my evaluation is due to a deep-seated idealism. i would say they are mostly infj's, perhaps some intj's. introversion is not an entirely isolated function as how well the environment is conducive/correlate to one's reality and/or personality will determine the level of that.

    now, this idealism is not entirely negative as seen from a complete literalist's point of view, as there are positives to glean offering idealism for a society. art is a typical one as well as higher social/moral values, as well as a form of outside the box thinking.

    there is also a difference between one's internal personality (perhaps naturally born) vs nurtured personality (environment). this is why one can transition from an infj to an intj as well as other other subtypes and vice-versa because of practicality issues of one's environment or just the culture influencing the personality itself.

    it's also a paradox because an infj is inherently more humble than other personalities, yet intj's are percieved as more arrogant than other personalities (at least to the average crowd/less perceptive). this result is due to the original impetus of idealism which are ironicly, still the impetus in the intj except now they don't care what others think (in a mostly narcissistic society anyways) since their ideas may not coincide with the general population (whatever that may be). this does not mean the general population is less arrogant, just that their ideals fit in or are more common.

    i disagree with a couple aspects of the description because one is intj's, and even infj's can see how a system works overall or gain an overall perspective as well as accurately judge people's weaknesses and strengths so can be very good at managerial positions or improving an existing system or implementing changes for efficiency. the only impediment may be the introversion or the level of introversion. this is one of the reasons why, oftentimes, the lesser skilled in one area may still be the dominant function in society due to it's extroversion function (though rightly needed as well). this is why there exist many inept bosses as well as politicians but gain the position through extroversion.

    so personality tests do need to be considered from different angles and their implications as to consider why, 'nature (born) vs nurture (experiences)' to it's development and changes. but usually, the crux or impetus of a personality will remain the same, the path and tools may change (outward personality).
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2018
  8. birch Valued Senior Member


    yep, your core or essence is who you are. of course, he is not going to say that infj's can feel like they are from outer space or from someplace else because that would be non-pc. that's what an infj is supposed to admit if they decide to.

    that is so true, infj and intj can see into the future at times (flashes of insight) or actual visions/dreams, positive or negative (not on will though). the useless and completely impractical part of seeing into the future is often you can't change it so there is really no point, especially if it's long-range and there is little context to to know what is the cause and effect of that outcome. it's like seeing a piece of a jigsaw puzzle without the puzzle so it makes no sense and it's virtually useless. the only implication/insight is that reality is being manipulated behind the scenes. immediate intuition (if it's correct) is more useful.

    i think part of the reason is the introvert usually doesn't block out nuance, texture, subtlety, the unexplained etc which are still a real part of the fabric of reality and that which the subconscious is aware of doesn't have as much of a hard time communicating it to the conscious mind perhaps to an intj/infj. but this has it's pros and cons, just like any personality type does. the con of this is it has little practical use in a physically dominated world.

    the part i disagree with is the idea that infj's or intj's swing from extreme asceticism to decadence. that has nothing to do with a certain personality type. i don't recognize it in this personality type as much as extroverts. introverts on average are minimalist or moderate. for instance, i've never over-indulged to an extreme even when i could in comparison to most others. i saw no pleasurable point to it. i've seen quite a lot of others do so as if that's a normal lifestyle from either binge drinking/drugs, shopping, eating, sex, relationships, wasting money etc. neither do i like deprivation but i would prefer moderation than extreme decadence.

    the only aspects that tie every infj and intj in common is some form of idealism/ideas (constrary to current reality or society) and those ideals are not necessarily the same and occasionally some intuition or literal vision of the future (not by choice and not always wanted) and therefore at times feeling a bit different. everything else could differ from person to person.
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2018
  9. birch Valued Senior Member

    also, these personality stereotypes are very general or only describe a part of the psyche because several state that an intj is not overly affectionately demonstrative and that is furthest from the truth. i lavish love, sensitivity, caring, nurturing and physical affection on those i love generously, pets and people and will move mountains if i can to help. i will be goofy, down to earth and love with warmth and tenderness and consider every possible way to make those i love happy or be comfortable.

    if i don't like or love you, then i'm the intj aloof stereotype. some of these descriptions are silly. people aren't going to be overly affectionately demonstrative to strangers. even extroverts don't do that. talking, being outgoing or socializing is not necessarily a real show or proof of demonstrative affection. geez.
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2018
  10. birch Valued Senior Member


    except i don't understand this repeated personality trait they tack onto this that there is an extreme between indulgence and deprivation. i don't really do that. if i'm deprived, it's not by choice and when i can indulge, i don't overindulge. it's true i can be ascetic (for a goal) and can exercise self-control but i've never overindulged even when i could.

    this might differ from person to person due to physiology as well as personal tastes/interests more than the psyche/subtype. for instance, drinking too much makes me sick, so therefore i wouldn't overindulge in that way.

    also, overindulgence can be seen as a distraction, so that would be avoided by some.

    it is true that infj/intj can see connections in many areas that society constantly asserts there are none (considered imagination) and wonder why others are not seeing it. not just that but a lot of subtle info and variations are just ignored.

    i can see why my family hated me and most (internally) insecure people. especially people who don't have power but want it. except, they don't understand it comes from within. they are insecure only because they refuse to look within themselves for it. they don't need to it from anyone else or undermine someone else to get it. each has their own unique brand. i've never wanted to have another's qualities or traits. it's just mindboggling. everyone has their own unique traits and beautiful strengths. each personality type and each person. i don't understand the problem or hatred.

    i remember this guy when i was in the reserves, who was considered a 'nerd' by most of the enlisted (not officers) and how badly he was treated. i remember sitting at the table and how everyone was mistreating him. it wasn't just because he was a nerd but because he also had some vulnerability (situation) and he was actually 'superior' in some of his traits (internally) BUT since he was among them (average to below average), so he was easily attacked and ostracized. that's what happens when something superior (trait) is among (circumstantially due to injury, orphan etc) the inferior and the inferior is the majority. that's a good opportunity to mar/bring down further what the inferior know is superior to them. it's a juicy opportunity (to them) when it occurs.

    he published some book and was a very thoughtful, gentle person. he also had no one and lived in the woods (by his own choice) and was pretty much a loner. i could immediately read he had suffered a lot in his life and could even sense the internal scarring/pain from being mistreated for his 'good' sensitive qualities. that good was like a light ( i could see it) within him that those who are not as evolved are often jealous of (because their light is dim or dark) but don't openly say or admit but the real impetus for their bullying (not all cases of bullying but in this one). they were always talking down to him but he did not mistreat them in return (he should have stood up for himself).

    to quote even a bible verse, it is true that we don't just battle flesh but principalities. people are not just physical beings but spirits within a vessel that can see other spirits, good, bad or in-between. there is more than one battle (power struggle) going on (not just physical) and there is more than one layer to reality that we experience. these are metaphors.

    this is what infj's and intj's can see. we acknowledge the unseen but real aspects that are not just literal but just as real. metaphors are a label for it. others know it too but are not acknowledging it on a conscious level.

    now, this was awhile back and times/culture shifts a bit. back then, more primitive conservative type bigots ruled the culture and day, so this type of social attack primarily against more evolved and sensitive souls was more common than today. the social and cultural climate has changed and in part due to more liberals dominating and influencing the culture.

    he reminds me of an infj or isfp. they are slightly more vulnerable than an intj but only because they have yet to stop being so nice to everyone that mistreats them.
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2018
  11. birch Valued Senior Member


    i've noticed the discrepancy of these personality subtypes. the whole description has an underlying tone that this subtype is all business all the time in all areas of their life. completely ridiculous. that may apply to some with this subtype but this does not apply to me in all contexts. this describes a personality that prioritizes their life is all, as in business is business and then there are other things. it doesn't mean one does not like recreation. this describes how one thinks in a business or professional setting, not when outside of it. you don't act this way at all times or think this way and if you are, how fake. i most definitely am not more suited to a working situation than a recreational one. this is ridiculous. i have a completely goofy and wacky side, like a child. who decided these descriptions? a robot?

    i most definitely enjoy recreational activities. i would say i have a side that is more a kid at heart than most people i have known. for instance, i love amusement parks, games, cartoons, etc. i don't determine my preferences based soley on some completely artificial/arbitrary idea of what are adult or not adult interests as if it's an indication of maturity. i prefer more wholesome activities than just about every adult i've ever known which makes me feel contempt for their lack of a fun side or, find them corrupt, just because they think it's an indication of dignity. no, it's an indication you are fake or dull or mean. that part is totally off.

    i don't know about all these ni type descriptions but what i'm parsing down from this is it's not so coincidental that it's a more rare personality and consequently, i don't meet other people who i feel or sense are my 'type' or 'species' type of thing, often. i think the most introverted people tend to feel this way for whatever reason or one of the reasons for their ni.

    i don't know if every intj type is like this but i doubt it because most true introverts don't make videos on youtube like the ones i've seen (and they don't strike me as that introverted or the ones living as loners). they also don't strike me as the type in the op. they strike me as perhaps just having a more private side or perhaps liking some quiet time perhaps to unwind. they don't strike me as unusual or rare at all as the so-called 2 to 4 percent.

    that is far different than someone whose introversion is that they feel they are not from this world, wished they were never born, feel strange etc. that's another type that may not even have a true category as that would be even more fine-tuned.

    the other description i've gotten is that there is a contradiction or a paradox in the personality which is the reason for it being more rare but i think the descriptions are just example of a combination of possibilities among various people with that subtype. what particular traits or reasons for the contradiction could be wildly different from person to person so even though you have the same personality subtype, you may have really nothing in common with another.

    that means that i identify with the ones in the op because one of their contradictions they revealed was also something i particularly thought or felt as well but not all introverts or ni types would think or feel this way at all. i doubt there is a real classification currently to identify such people (feel like an alien etc)
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2018
  12. birch Valued Senior Member


    this is a paradox because though this is usual with certain groups of women, the most sensitive and ethical of the women almost always identify with me, probably because they can sense that i have good intentions. there are many times i have not used any type of inflammatory language, it's just any view outside of a stereotype (their own views) is considered offensive to most, even if their stereotypes are even more offensive or just completely erroneous. it's also ironic, because often the ones offended are not as nice or caring but just very superficial, from my experience.

    this is a generalization but from my experience, most women have little critical thinking skills (accurate) and tend to focus on the most superficial aspect of any situation, event or idea. this can get very annoying after awhile because of the lack of conscientiousness. but, women who are less egotistical, and sensitive in any group tend to be the ones who are more interested in understanding the different angles to arrive at a fair conclusion.

    what i find is often the case, is an opinion or statement that an intj or infj, sometimes isfp says is often viewed as offensive (even if it's not offensive on it's face but different) simply because others have not thought about the issue. they believe this lack of insight and carelessness on the part of their thinking is an indication of good ethics or social skills but it really isn't.

    any definition of social skills is defined by the majority. that is whether they are good or bad. that is obvious because i've been in social circles where rampant prejudice, bias, profanity, gossip and general callousness was considered okay. group-think or conformity is not always an indication of 'right' nor good or social skills are relative to any group.

    that said, i've found that males are often the same way and many also are no more intelligent than women, so this may have little to do with gender but just a general culture/society.

    i could understand how this type of personality could potentially rub someone the wrong way or be considered rude or offensive if they use their obnoxious side.

    but from personal experience, i started out even more considerate (infj), even kind than those around me in every situation and very conscientious toward everyone and that was taken for weakness or i was bullied or exploited. that's what people generally do so it's hardly the intj's fault when they learn to be as selfish as those around them or decide to turn off their caring side.

    still, intj's are not the kind to go out of their way to hurt people. we don't want to hurt people at all. we just may appear aloof.
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2018
  13. birch Valued Senior Member

    that's an interesting pattern as it's true that my romantic relationships have been with extroverts (entp, enfp). but nope, independent personalities don't like to be smothered all the time and need a lot of space so i prefer them from afar. for me, the only male i've ever been able to be around 24/7 that didn't annoy me was my son. well, he is just the perfect angel and specimen the universe ever created to me.

    for me, these so-called extroverts, i see their personalities as my shadow sides that is submerged. that's the connection and resonation because i can also tell that the reason for my personality development (the ni part) has more to do with the people i had grown up around and more situational than nature. i had to hide my ambition, happiness, initiative, inspiration etc to survive otherwise i would be even more punished.

    that to me, means originally i think i was somewhat of an extrovert as i as always singing, dancing, drawing, laughing etc as a child. very bubbly, playful, open etc but still needed quiet time to reflect deeply. so infj resonates with my heart of hearts (a kinder world) more than intj (means to an end).

    some people think these personality tests are unreliable (can change) but that's only in terms of interpretation. you just have to discern which parts are innate (true impetus, values) and which parts are auxiliary functions you've developed or chosen to maneuver in the outside world.

    depending on the situation or circumstance, an auxiliary function (that's touted as your main function) can take center stage while your main function (impetus) can be relegated to the background.
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2018
  14. birch Valued Senior Member


    we appear slow or riding the short bus.

    without inspiration, even if it's an idealistic dream, what is the point of living?


    Similar sentiment. infj is an empath, trusting and vulnerable, then intj is the empath that develops strategy to survive.

    i think the narrator is just an introvert naturally and her mother's feelings is something she was sensitive to/empathic.

    i disagree with her assessment though because my grandmother was having kids when she was poor and all of six of them are extroverts, not a single introvert in the bunch. it's like she defecated a bunch of asshole grotesque selfish scum into the world. there was 'nothing' vulnerable about them.

    my mother was an extrovert too. i was always trying to be sensitive, empathic and caring to that monster as if i was the role of mother and all she did was abuse and exploit it with an extreme cold -hearted callousness. but whatever she was must have been what makes up the majority population because she fit right into it easily. her husband and her daughter with him are both extroverts. his son from his previous marriage is an extrovert.

    i was the first introvert/empath to be born into that family, then my son after me. my son also was very sensitive and empathic towards me also. a very gentle and caring personality, even self-sacrificing. the kind of personality that makes you worry they will be taken advantage in this world. there was an ambiguity in my feelings as on the one hand, i was looking at a kindred soul but on the other, i felt guilty for bringing him into this world or worried for him.

    i think besides, just personality genetics, it's what happens to you after you are born and those experiences which really shape your personality. if you are born an introvert and you have danger around you, that would most likely reinforce more introversion. if you are an extrovert, it would still do the same but probably not to the same degree.

    i've even witnessed it in person a few times such as a person revealing some side of them and the group is not okay with it and then they hide it (introversion). that can be both a positive or negative quality depending on the situation and the people that one is dealing with.

    so both introversion and extroversion can be reinforced to some degree.
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2018
  15. birch Valued Senior Member


    the most rare personality type in the whole set: 0.8% female.

    explains everything. even when i had nothing and my jealous family members were still intimidated to the point they had to rub it in my face (their success) and even moreso, the males (uncles). i used to wonder why these jealous family members were so insidiously and constantly jealous and making sure i stayed down below them and kept keeping tabs on me as if i was their benchmark for everything. their entire ego depended on making sure i was ground into the dirt.

    why would people care to compare themselves with someone who even has nothing? because no matter how much outer success they attain, they still won't be you or have your character. lmfao!

    absolutely the subtype jealous and insecure people would want to take down, especially a patriarchal society. truly terrible. interesting we don't care to do such things.

    i don't agree oprah is an intj. she is a tj, but not introvert. it's true we can see the forest for the trees. we can detach and get eagle vision. i overhauled a system at ibm that was completely inefficient. what amazed me is how no one (managers, employees) even noticed it. well, the customers did with their complaints.

    this is how irrational people are, my immediate supervisor, out of all my co-workers was most threatened by me and would be pettily jealous when our manager would give me any compliments. i could not take his job or even vy for it, but intj's must give off some superpower vibes that make jealous assholes suspicious. lmao!
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2018
  16. LaurieAG Registered Senior Member

    If you started out with "give us the best/worst answers that anybody could give" you may have something but the standard is give us your honest opinion.

    I don't know why anybody would ask the former as opposed to the latter.
  17. birch Valued Senior Member

    what i find funny about these personality tests it's most of the more common (not the rare ones) personality types have been cited as to be more inclined to sociopathy and psychopathy as well as crimes (including white collar), but society lies to itself and tells eachother that it's only the two percent of the population that are sociopaths/psychopaths in the population. of course not, the majority aren't going to admit that openly. that makes no sense.

    i already knew that was bs just from life experience. you can witness that from an early age onward as to who and why society alienates some people and it's definitely usually not based on whether someone is a good or bad person.

    exactly. but this is why an intj or infj child who unfortunately has an immoral megalomaniac authority figure will be the target of the most intense hatred and abuse.
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2018
  18. birch Valued Senior Member


    heehee.. that is true. but i'm an eneagram 4 (the artist) so that softens it up even more (at least internally). some say that hitler, mother teresa and ghandi were infj's (not intj's like me now) so it's your impetus and values (who you really are at core) that determine how you use your outer personality (mtbi).

    I do??! these descriptions are funny to me because i'm not at the top but at the very bottom of society. i'm the master at strategizing my grocery list and which is the best way to get in and out of the store because i hate shopping. lmao!

    you have to read between the lines for yourself. every personality type doesn't mean you are the smartest or talented or how innovative/inventive; it doesn't take into account your background, your experiences, the culture, your ethnicity, any disabilities/issues you may have or any number of other factors that influence your life and your path.

    when i took the disc personality test, the results were similar but i think the myers brigg is a better, more comprehensive evaluation platform but neither can pick up every differing nuance and subtext of each personality even within the same subtype because people are so complex. the disc showed more dominance (but evaluation is not as discerning) but respect for ethics and humanitarian (caring). the dominance wasn't actually wanting to dominate others but more a complex tug of war between the right of individualism/self-actualization with how one's actions and ethics affect the web-like structure of society and others and vice-versa. a type of conscientiousness.

    i think the eneagram is the true me as in the soul or heart of hearts. how i would like to be/manuever/behave in a utopian, ethical and fair world.
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018
  19. birch Valued Senior Member


    of all intj's listed, including on other sites, i would say elon musk is not really a villain but he needs to be mindful of his conscience and greed as with all people that wield power. his good aspect is that he is working on long-range goals that are positive.

    he is not primarily of the usual humanitarian motive but using tech to improve or save the world. but there are a lot of good humanitarians and heroes like bill gates.

    everyone uses a different path.
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018
  20. birch Valued Senior Member


    he should be my therapist. he nailed it. we rely on simulation and formulate theoretical concepts to understand the world, our lives and other people's lives.

    i don't think these are made up or imagination but an intuitive understanding of a framework visually, what it entails and it's implications.

    how i know my background functions are working logically is the accuracy. i even remember even once i saw a differential calculus problem on the board and the answer flashed to me immediately and after i worked it out, it was the correct answer on the bullseye.

    this also goes in line with my thoughts on the question of linear time through the extraverted sensing. there was no linear process in the subconscious as i remember taking in the whole equation/picture at once and each process working simultaneously to instantly see the answer.

    this is not something i can just willfully do at any time but it goes to show the (subconscious) mind can be capable of it and relay it to the conscious awareness.

    i see intuition (if it's fine-tuned as in correct) as a form of movement/clue to the ultimate answer. this is the usual in a linear fashion plodding along the path from one to the next.

    it's a mental process but our intuitive/subconscious function is just more dominant. this has some drawbacks though.
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2018
  21. birch Valued Senior Member

    oh lord, so it's true. i was thinking maybe i'm not an intj.

    this is true too. besties. lol

    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
  22. birch Valued Senior Member


    after analyzing this these two mbti's in depth, in it's application to me, in conclusion (not every other), it is merely an 'adopted' one.

    this is the real distillation:

    Regards the immediate situation as a prison from which escape is urgently necessary ..

    this was the only reason for the adoption or development of this mbti. this is not just about leaving a situation, town, country, planet but wants to go beyond the universe itself. i actually do not care about any of the other descriptions of this personality except on a superficial level. it is no different to me than living in a chateau in france if that is where you find yourself or adapting to an igloo in the north pole. i don't consider it some higher truth as to my real identity.

    that one statement is the core impetus or motivation.

    however, what is considered the "prison" or bondage will be defined and different for each individual.
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
  23. birch Valued Senior Member


    ultimate question: why for everything?

    the problem with one answer assessments is often you will know that you are choosing the correct answers (except for the most objective facts/truths) based on another's perspective/rationalization, not what you may really think or even know. you may know (expectation) of what the correct answer is on a superficial level based on the assessor's perspective but may not even agree with it.

    intj's can reproduce visual information accurately. this is why when people question/doubt accuracy of recall of what is important with their ability or lesser ability in this area, it can be frustrating because it's not taken seriously and when you know you are right.
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018

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