personality theory based on archetypes

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by Kimani, Nov 7, 2013.

  1. wellwisher Banned Banned

    Feral children would be considered half domesticated and half natural. They would reflect a higher percent of natural archetype contribution. In other words, since they have less social programming to structure them, externally, their personality firmware would be less altered by cultural programming. One big difference might be less programming based on social laws of good and evil, such as PC. Their archetypes will be more neutral, creating social uneasiness to their behavior since it is natural neutral and not conditioned to be polarized.

    The archetypes or personality firmware can be visualized as beginning as seeds at birth. Like any seed, the (human) DNA will define how this seed unfolds, grows and matures all the way to bearing fruit. Picture a tomato plant growing from a tiny seed. The impact of culture and the conscious mind, on this seed, it like the impact of the external (neural) environment, which provides food, water, sun, pH, mold, virus, bugs, soil structure, drought, cloudy days, all of which can impact the growth and final performance of the plant. This can have a positive or negative impact; green and black thumbs.

    These firmware seeds are the same for all humans (in general), while the external environment is more specific to cultures. It is also specific to each of us, with respect to our unique place in space and time, as well as individual perception through the filters of our mind. An optimist (sunny day) and pessimist (cloudy dozy) in the exact situation (twins) have different impact on the firmware growth due to data weighing.

    The feral child lacks many of the filters that culture would create in the conscious mind of its civilized children. This changes the focus of the conscious mind on data weighing from the environment. The feral child is more natural and will rely more on internal filters.

    Many of the symbols of the archetypes are similar but unique to various cultures. This reflects the seeds being the same, but the impact of the external environment of culture, dressing up the symbol through natural osmosis of the firmware.
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  3. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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  5. wellwisher Banned Banned

    My early work with the collective unconscious, came after some traditional group therapy that help me to self actualization. The self actualization was anti-climatic with the struggle toward the goal, far more interesting than finally getting there. Jung appeared to offer a way to continue this interesting quest of the mind, to the next step. This step was me trying to differentiate the symbols of the archetypes through my own dreams and active imagination.

    If the archetypes were the collective basis for our human nature, and I am human, I felt I should be able to self generate them. I wanted to prove to myself this was real and not something one learns and repeat in second person. I wanted to do this in the first person. I did this stage for about 2 years, on a daily basis, like a hobby. I would also read the collective works of Jung to help he analyze dreams and collective symbolism.

    Although i became an expert a symbols and could generate ancient symbols of the archetypes, the problem I had unknowingly created, was my constant differentiation of symbolism in dreams, active imagination, and synchronicity, made things that are normally unconscious too conscious, to the point where my personality become dissociated. As an analogy, it was like thinking about all the muscle in your legs that you use for walking, as you walk. As you become more and more good at visualizing all tiny fibers in the muscles, natural walking starts to lose its fluidity, since you tamper with the unconscious data processing.

    The inner self helped me to get back to a more integrated state by outlining a natural healing/integration process, in a dream. This process would occur in few months after this dream. In the dream there was a whirling ring of light and fire that was rotating in a horizontal plane. As I looked I notice a man, then a women, dive into the ring of light and fire and merge with it. At that point I heard a sinister voice say, when you (me) have entered the ring, it shall be complete.

    As soon as I heard, I said no thanks, and I felt shear panic. I woke myself out of the dream, like climbing out of a hole, only to find the walls of my bedroom breathing, with the sinister presence about to enter my room. I was trying to calm myself to observe what was going on, since it was awesome data. But another part of me was in shear panic. My mind and body had become separated, into my animal body, which was afraid like a spooked horse, and my mind which was trying to calm my horse (body), who was bucking and wanting to run. At that moment, I remembered the power of prayer, and this calmed my body and the sinister presence left; holy crap. When my horse calmed, I realized I had a sword (reason) and a shield (faith) and I was no longer afraid. I went back to sleep but had no more dreams.

    This intense dream triggered synchronicity (meaningful coincidence) around my apartment. For three days a large colorful beetle remained over the front door of my apartment. In a dream, he would be a symbol of protection. But this symbol was not in a dream but was sitting outside my apartment at the right place and the right time. For three days my personality felt shattered so I guess I needed a guard. But by the third day, I was feeling like myself again. When I went outside to see my bug friend, he flapped his wings and flew away. I felt protected onto top of my sword and shield. I was ready.

    The dream outlined a natural healing process that would be triggered in my future, that would reintegrate my personality. The ring of light and fire would be a symbolic puzzle/scenario that the inner self would generate. I needed to merge both my mind (man) and heart (women) by feeling and thinking about it, without preconception. I had to be one with it. Then I needed to find a position of objectivity and faith (man on the horse) from which I could separate and solve the puzzle. If I got it right, I would get a dose of endorphins as a reward. The calm euphoria of the endorphins might last for few hours at first, to a fee minute later, until another puzzle would appear. The puzzles got more complex and more complex with some having as many as six archetypes in action. The puzzles would appear day and/or night for several months. My slogan was eternal vigilance was the price of liberty since I had to always be alert, even in my dreams, where I needed to solve puzzles. It was exhausting, but finally end when I was integrated into someone new.

    It was a few months later, I began to see the added value of this. The inner self had made me more creative because it has taught me how to form a communication link. I stopped all my archetype research at that point and began to practice my creativity. My creativity had been enhanced, but with my assuming I was done with the collective unconscious, I did not realize I was being set up for a far more exhausting inner self reprogramming process. I won'r get into that but that cycle ended with my conscious mind rebooted without any memory. It appears to have chopped down the firmware plants that had grown in my mind, only to sprout again with the inner self the sun and water.
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  7. Kimani Registered Senior Member

    It probably doesn't apply to feral children at all. They are a special different case.
  8. Kimani Registered Senior Member

    I have made updates to the theory. My partner in this project a child psychiatrist has pushed me to add more so I added three more archetypes and thirty new questions that adress the new archetypes. He helped me make changes to some of the new questions and I also used the book Asking Questions: The Definitive Guide to Questionnaire Design to help me.
  9. wellwisher Banned Banned

    The archetypes of the collective unconscious are the firmware that underly the human personality. These firmware define human nature and characterize us as a species. Whether one is feral or not, if they have human DNA, they should have the same fundamental firmware for human nature.

    If your archetypes do not apply to the feral child, your archetypes are more connected to the ego/super ego aspect and not the core aspects. The ego is shaped by free will and choice, with the feral child having far different choices to practice his will.

    The gods of mythology are different in appearance for different ancient cultures. These superficial differences are connected to the ego and the superego of that culture. At the core symbolic level, there various systems are much closer than they appear; they all reflect the core firmware but with cultural masks.

    The feral child will have the same core, but his cultural or archetype veneer for the inner self, for example, may not include gold since his micro-culture never had access to this. A perfect sphere may be hard to find in the woods, so this may not be used as a symbol to define his inner self, either. However, if the sphere is universal, this inner self vision would inspire the feral child to make a ball, so it can become externalized.

    The ego/super ego shapes the how the core symbols of the archetypes are clothed. There are dozens of symbols of the inner self depending on place and time. The feral child is in a different place in time.

    One may be able to anticipate what his collective unconscious will use to express itself, externally, due to what is available in his little cultural world and what can be shaped by his hands and mind.
  10. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

    The last thing we need is yet one more method for putting children into pigeonholes while they're young. Before the civil rights movement, it was assumed that Afro-American children didn't need good schools because they had no potential. And women didn't need college educations because, after all, all they really wanted was to be good housewives and stay at home with the children.

    My Meyers-Briggs profile has shifted greatly over the decades. I used to test as an INTJ, but now I'm an ENTJ.
  11. wellwisher Banned Banned

    The personality firmware within humans is common to our human species. It is collective, due to our shared human DNA, and defines us a species; human nature. How these firmware are represented, in terms of their detail, is culturally defined. The core is the same for all, but the superficial representation is more specific to cultures. The former is due to DNA while the latter is due to language and traditions.

    As an analogy, if we placed a glass of water on a table, and had 12 people, who each spoke different languages, tell us what they see, each will have a different written and sound representation for the glass of water. They all see the same thing, but each will use different sounds that are common to their culture. These culturally dependent sounds are arbitrary and are not universal; subjective. There is no one set of word sounds, for the glass of water, that all people of all languages can understand. Only the visual is the same for all.

    The term archetype, used by Jung, had the word type in it, to imply universal. The cultural representations are more diversified and can tend to pigeon hole, because it defines the universal with a unique cultural facade. If we used the universal types, then we all become the same; we all see the glass of water.

    Jung broke the organization of the archetypes three layers, based on the ancient tradition of body, soul and spirit. The lowest level archetypes are connected to our animal instincts; body. The soul is what makes each of us unique. This middle level is connected to language and culture. The writing of memory, within the brain, associates feeling tags to thoughts; combination of limbic and cerebral. The unique blend of thoughts and feeling, will define us as unique, since this equates us to a unique place in time and space.

    The highest level is the spirit, which is more about fluid adaptation using experience and working memory. The body and spirit are more adaptive than fixed in stone. Each of these layers can be good or evil. For example, instinct can be useful and appear as a helpful animal in a dream; our dog. Or it can be taboo and/or dangerous; devouring bear.

    The same is true of soul and spirit. An evil spirit archetype may be represented as an evil wizard or even Satan; intuitive impulse to act with evil intent. There are also composite archetypes between body and soul, and between soul and spirit. The centaur is part human soul and part animal body. These can also be good and evil. The lounge lizard is based on the composite archetype of body and soul, animated for adaptation by an evil spirit. This is symbol talk but it shows the layers of firmware being used.

    Male and female are different, due to difference and form and function. It was a social mistake to homogenize the superficial aspects of archetypes, since the cores are not the same. This is why it takes constant resources and propaganda to trick the system. In reality, the cores are staggered and designed to meshed like gears in a complementary ways to gain added leverage; team effect. When meshed, they team will cross program and will create another layer of archetypes that reflects the composite. This may be reflected as two characters interacting in dreams.

    The male has the order, from low to high, of body, soul and spirit, while female is body, spirit and soul. The middle level of the male or his soul is feminine; his female side. While the middle level of spirit of the women is masculine; her male side.

    The female soul, which is higher level than her spirit, is connected to maternal instincts; mother nature or the soul of nature. But since the spirit animates the soul, in tradition, the female more often makes use of a cultural spirit to animate her soul. She may depend on medical procedures and self help books, to take the place of her inner voice of mother nature whom she does not trust; too old fashion.

    The male is body, soul and spirit. Because his spirit is higher than his soul, and the spirit animates the soul, the male tends to be more creative as his spirit/hunches move his soul; soul of a pioneer. As these ideas and inventions get accepted into culture, this becomes the social spirit that is used to lead the female soul; women maintain the cultural traditions. Her material instinct or soul causes these to have unconditional acceptance, like for any child, even if sick; fad.

    The husband leading the wife was connected to the meshing of the gears being the male/spirit leading the female/soul. The first is adaptive wisdom of the males being integrated by the wives's maternal instinct. While the second is the spirit of the matriarch leading the soul of her family, who includes her husband; day to day.
  12. wellwisher Banned Banned

    There is a wild card human addendum connected to the archetypes. This wildcard is connected to the symbolism of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. The tree of knowledge of good and evil is connected to law. Like a tree, law started simple; seedling, and grew over time into a large tree with a wide variety of branches; rules. The trunk of the tree was a simple prohibition. Law is a unique form of memory, in that it is a binary form of memory; Satan = Binarius.

    When the brain stores memory, aspects of the limbic system attach an emotional valence to memory as the memory is written to the cerebral matter. The reason the limbic system does this to memory is help cluster and layer the memory based on emotional valance. If we feel hungry, this triggers thoughts of food, food gathering and eating due to similar valence tags; layer. This layering is useful to animals, to help focus their mind to the task; valence. If there is fear in the air, the memory layer is about various threats, scenarios of attack and evasions.

    Law memory is unique in that to know law one has to know both the good and the bad sides of the law. The good side of the law tells us the proper path. It may even have a reward; social acceptance. While the bad side of the law instructs us on all the things to avoid and may contain the harsh consequences of our evil actions. Since the two sides of law will result in conflicting emotions; love/rest or fear/pain, the brain stores law memories into two separate locations; two different layers. These two layers creates an inner polarization due to law being fixed in stone.

    In western tradition, heaven is the place where all the good people go, with the collective emotional valence of heaven one of love and rest. Hell is the place where all those who transgressed the law will go and contains only the negative emotions like fear and pain. The symbolism projects the binary layering of law memory.

    There is a saying that sin is not imputed where there is no law. There is no going to heaven or to hell for doing or not doing things outside the law. For example, it is legal to wear black shoes. This memory does not appear in two layers at the same time. One can like or dislike these shoes, so the memory may appear in one or the other layer, but not both. Sin appears with law, since all law adds content to the binary of two layers. If black shoes are now evil or now good so all have to wear them, by the law, the polarization now appears and adds to both layers. Sin appears due to law, with original sin the start of polarization; trunk.

    Since law is a type of memory that is reinforced through education, threat and reward, it adds reinforced pillars of memory to the brain, that have an impact on the archetypes. Law can polarize the natural archetypes into good and evil. The good witch and the bad witch, reflect archetypes impacted by the potential in the dual layer. The natural witch is neutral. The net effect of law is each archetype can have three different versions; good, evil and natural. Picture if an archetype triggers the layer connected to the evil side of law to express its dynamic. It now has access to all the tools of evil in hell taught by law; serial killer.

    In my own experiences with unconscious exploration, to collect direct archetype data from my own psyche, I encountered both the natural neutral archetypes as well as socially induce polarized versions due to law. The inner self will try to resolve this conflict and will attempt to remove the polarization to help restore natural archetypes. This is easier said than done, because it is not easy to live apart from culture, which will reinforce the polarization.

    The earliest Christians tried this approach; did away with law, to gain natural archetypes. Natural archetypes do what is natural and not what is part of the polarization due to law. But their natural archetypes brought out the archetypes of the dark side against them; they tried to force the law, less the dark side loose its potential; Satan. This was a time where the archetypes came into action with all three types, natural, good and evil manifest in culture.
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2015
  13. DCG Registered Member


    Reminds me a bit of Enneagram, a personality theory that is popular with business, and oddly, some main stream Christian groups.

    Personally, I'm not sure what these kind of theories really have to offer, and seemed based on a kind of circular reasoning. Do you like attending social events and have many friends? Then you're an extrovert!
  14. Kimani Registered Senior Member

    Yeah the Enneagram and the Meyers Briggs are definitely my competition. But the Enneagram isn't used academically and I'm trying to get my work used academically first and foremost. My mentor for this project wants me to come up with a proof of concept before we start shopping this around to universities. And I found out that means I have to write a thesis explaining why my idea is useful.
  15. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

    Oh look, the nutcase is STILL pushing his nonsense.
    Tell me, have you performed any ACTUAL tests to validate this "theory" of yours yet, or are you still building unsupported drivel on top of other unsupported drivel?

    You tried promoting this pile of sh*t on a different forum and chose to leave rather provide any support or even argue your own case.
    In short you're STILL pushing unfounded trash.
  16. Kimani Registered Senior Member

    The plan is to get the assessment validated by a university. My mentor a child psychiatrist said he can gather up people to take it and help validate it but it largely comes down to a university to really do that.
  17. Kimani Registered Senior Member

    I'm going to have to submit a proposal to DCPS so their board/ committee can approve my work as far as data collecting and research. ... Data_0.pdf

    Through my contacts I found a professor at Howard U who would be willing to give my survey to her students for field testing but she just said she needs an IRB (Institutional Review Board) to approve of it first or something similar to an IRB.
  18. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Yikes! So you can label some school child's personality type as troublemaking, conniving, ditzy?

    Why not skip the middle step and just label these children as latent failures, criminals, psychopaths?

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  19. Kimani Registered Senior Member

    It's really a way of identifying personality disorders. Someone on another forum asked me if it applies to everyone or is it just to identify personality disorders. And I had to give them an answer. The archetypes puts a different spin on what is essentially identifying personality disorders.
  20. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    It would be setting psychology back a half century or more. It's a return to catch-all labels that follow a child and scar them for life: The Troublemaker, The Conniver, The Ditz. These are derogatory, and laden with baggage.

    They imply that a given person is their disorder. See the diff:

    Billy has Attention Deficit Disorder.
    This describes a disorder that afflicts Billy - a well-defined disorder, with a scientific basis. It does not define who Billy is. When we refer to Billy, we still call him Billy.

    Billy is The Troublemaker.
    This defines Billy as the problem. And the definition is a broad schoolyard slur that concentrates on his 'problem' rather than on the affliction itself. We don't even need to use Billy's name; we can simply refer to 'The Troublemaker'. That's not what we want.

    Other ones, such as The Cutie, The Girly-Girl have nothing to do with personality disorders, but seem to define people by superficial traits such as looks or mannerisms. Isn't that what we've been trying to fight for decades, the escape from objectifying people by superficial traits, such as how 'cute' they are?
  21. Kimani Registered Senior Member

    I mean I could have named the types Archetype Blend A Archetype Blend B and Archetype Blend C but I decided to give actual names to them. The name the Designer puts a positive spin on things. It's not negative. The same goes for the Charmer. It's not necessarily negative. The Professional isn't negative either. It's accurate but it's not negative. Troublemaker is actually negative and derogatory but I don't think any of my name choices really are.
  22. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Yes, I'd planned to mention that too.

    Some labels are 'good', some are 'bad'.

    What do you think happens when a child gets labelled as a (good) Designer and another gets labelled as a (bad) Troublemaker?
  23. Kimani Registered Senior Member

    I'm not going to be using this in grade school on children. Adults are going to use this. I'm going to be using this at a university. I'm just trying to get DC Public Schools' peer review board to approve of it as a formality. The person I spoke with at a university says it needs to be IRB approved or something similar to an IRB and since I already work in DC Public Schools I figured I would just submit a proposal to them.

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