Perpetual Machine using magnetic artificial muscle

Discussion in 'Physics & Math' started by ismu, Jan 29, 2002.

  1. c'est moi all is energy and entropy Registered Senior Member

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    "The fact is, if anybody discovered true "free energy" they would become immensely rich. They would win the Nobel prize for physics. Their device would revolutionise all aspects of our lives. So far this hasn't happened. What do you think the most likely explanation for that is?"

    Very simple, Look at your attitude and then think that if the establishments reacts like that, which they do, what the chances are for anyone to come see what you're doing?


    Bill Beaty on this:

    "Q3: IS THERE A CONSPIRACY TO SUPPRESS THESE DEVICES?

    A: Yes and no.

    Is there a CONSPIRACY to keep women in low-paying jobs? No, there is just wide-ranging sexism, and sexist employers need not "conspire" together.

    To the people who are victims of sexist behavior, it may SEEM as if employers are conspiring together against them. But bigotry is not a conspiracy, instead it is a sort of disease which spreads through groups of people. We might become "infected" with bigotry, but obviously no secret organization is needed for bigotry to spread. We don't have to join a secret society in order to become a practicing sexist.

    Prejudice against the "Free Energy" research field has a similar origin. "Science bigots" constantly attack its adherents. They smear the field with derogatory names and use fairly underhanded tactics to discredit the research. And they believe that their behavior is proper. They are convinced that Science needs to be defended against "hoards of crackpots." It's a war, and in war, underhanded tactics become acceptable. If tomorrow I were to publicly announce that I was attempting to duplicate some inventor's claimed "overunity device," I would expect to receive smug laughter and sneering putdowns from reputable scientists. If my income depended on peer review by other scientists, I would expect to have my funding quickly cut off. But this bigotry is a result of belief systems, not of conspiracy. Skeptical scientists know, WITHOUT EXAMINING EVIDENCE that I must be some sort of deranged crackpot. They take "justified" action in preventing my waste of funding. But what if they're wrong? The problem is not that crackpots might waste funding. The problem is that "crackpots" are condemned without a fair hearing (often without any hearing at all.)"

    You see, I think your reaction is not scientific at all. You say it your self, They all must be lying otherwise they would have the Nobelprice. But that's a very naieve answer and it oversimplifies the situation completely.
    I believe the best and most scientific attitude there is is the one which Bill Beaty shows us. Open yet sceptic.

    THe thing with the adams motor is that, if Tim is not lying and I believe not as a few other people have had the SAME results, then it is that magnets can be forced to do WORK, something which everybody thinks is not possible. But experiment proofs them wrong.
    Therefore, I also think he shouldn't have said it is perpetual motion, Bill beaty says it much better, because it isn't perpetual, the magnets take vacuum (background) energy.
    May I remind you that the Wright Brothers after having flown before hundreds and hundreds of people, were still scoffed off as liars by scientists in the USA, and there even appeared an article in one of those journals to explain in technical terms why the law of physics couldn't allow this after many demonstrations of the Wright Brothers.
    Well, the scientists of the SAME establishment are scoffing off any report of a device which makes it above COP1.
    Attitudes do not change. Only the subjects change.

    When Tim says:

    "The Adams motor forces energy out of the fields of permanent magnets in a precise geometrical load less manner, via an electromagnetic asymmetry set up by a pulsed 'Lenz gate'"

    I believe this is clear, and the asymmetric aspect reminds me immediately of Lee and Chang who discovered way back in the 50's broken symmetry in particles physics (and for which they received a Nobelprice)

    "It is an observed empirical fact the Adams motor runs off the exact same 'cold' negative electricity, observed by JLN and many others."

    of course, they are all lying according to you and the scientific establishment
    this is not a good attitude

    "So putting this together, it is my hypothesis that if the field strength of a permanent magnet is reduced below the size of the force"

    clear to me

    " that created it minus losses, the field assumes a form of negative, or negentropic value, in order to draw in energy such that the field can be brought back up to full strength. This negative value may be simple time reversal."

    okay, that it is a Hypothesis
    maybe nature works different, keeping in mind that some clever people suggest that Time does not even exist

    "This is done via a direct 100% efficient thermo electric conversion (Bedini and Adams both report cold magnets, and I have seen the cold circuitry for myself, hence this hypothesis is also empirically derived)."

    all three have seen it, yet this is just an explanation

    "Since the conversion takes place in negative space where normal physical law is reversed, loss less energy conversions are permitted. Waste heat in the vacuum is directly converted to potential. A true time reversed negentropy interaction, that is the exact time reversed opposite of conventional textbook I2R electrical losses."

    eveything is reversed, mathematical absolutely possible and empirically observed

    "What I am arguing for is not so much a rewriting of conventional textbooks, but simply the addition of another chapter explaining a 'special case,' for fields, extending rather than replacing conventional theory. The concept of field depletion also explains why over-unity effects can be so sensitive, and have caused such problems over the years. "

    sounds all very clear to me

    now, theory might be wrong
    I believe I will inform Sansbury on this after my exams and ask how he would explain this
    this because he's explained me some other stuff (from Bearden) normally explained with vacuum energy in a whole different way

    keep at it,

    c'est moi

    ps: ismu, I believe what you are trying to do has already been done, so I think if you read some work not only of Tim (he explains how to make it) but also of mR Adams himself or if you join the adamsEgroup, that you can check all this out for yourself
    Enjoy!
     
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  3. c'est moi all is energy and entropy Registered Senior Member

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  5. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    c'est moi,

    As I said previously, I am not necessarily claiming that the "free lunch" crowd are lying, though that is one possibility. What I think is that they have not demonstrated, even on a balance of probabilities, that their devices work as advertised. There is a lack of sufficient evidence to believe their claims.

    Scientists would like nothing better than to discover a device for extracting vacuum zero-point energy. It would be an essentially unlimited energy source which would solve all the world's energy problems, eliminate fossil fuel use and so on. When somebody claims to have invented such a device, that turns heads.

    Now, if you invented such a device, what would be the best way to convince the world it works, do you suppose? Put it on the web? I don't think so. What I would do is arrange for some unbiased, well-credentialled scientists to come and take a look at my device and verify its operation (possibly after taking out a patent or three). I'd also invite the energy companies to have a look. And the government. Perhaps phone up the TV stations and have a live demonstration in front of an audience (with experts in attendance). And drop a line to the Nobel committee to let them know I exist for future reference.

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    <i>Prejudice against the "Free Energy" research field has a similar origin. "Science bigots" constantly attack its adherents. They smear the field with derogatory names and use fairly underhanded tactics to discredit the research.</i>

    No. I think when somebody says "I have invented a free-energy machine", the usual scientific response is "Great! Show me the money!" Scientists like to have evidence that claims are true, and will not settle for somebody's say-so. Derogatory names are unnecessary (though I'm not saying that they aren't used from time to time).

    In my experience, it is ALWAYS the nutters who claim that mainstream scientists are bigots, part of a conspiracy to repress new ideas and so on. The fact is, scientists LOVE new ideas. It's what they do for a living.

    <i>When Tim says

    "The Adams motor forces energy out of the fields of permanent magnets in a precise geometrical load less manner, via an electromagnetic asymmetry set up by a pulsed 'Lenz gate'"

    I believe this is clear...</i>

    Let's look at this for a minute, then. What does "forces energy out of the fields" mean? Can you give me an analogy with a field I am familiar with (electric, magnetic, gravitational)?

    What does "precise geometrical load less manner" mean? In what sense is the manner geometrical? In what sense is it load less (<i>sic</i>)? This seems to me to be using big words for the sake of it, rather than to convey meaning.

    What kind of asymmetry are we talking about here? And what is a "Lenz gate"? Is that a made-up term?

    I think this passage is far from clear. Another example:

    <i>"So putting this together, it is my hypothesis that if the field strength of a permanent magnet is reduced below the size of the force"

    clear to me</i>

    Not clear to me. The terms "field strength" and "force" have very specifically defined meanings in physics, which are different. You simply can't compare the size of a field to the size of a force. It's comparing apples and oranges.

    When the level of explanation of the operation of a claimed "free energy" machine is this deficient, I start to be suspicious that it works at all. As I said, I can't be sure because I haven't seen all the evidence, but I have to wonder why Tim's first stop is the web and not a panel of experts as discussed above.
     
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  7. ismu ::phenomenon::. Registered Senior Member

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    whatever...

    Whatever conclusion of this thread, it's give me encourage to continue searching for "free energy". Thanks to both of you.
    c'est moi i've visited your website (i found on your profile). The cartoon below your first page is "wonderfull" satire for todays mankind. Funny

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    Last edited: Feb 1, 2002
  8. ismu ::phenomenon::. Registered Senior Member

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    a little bit more...

    just a little bit more comment:

    I think it would be be very expesive James. Lots of invetors are "garage class inventor", who don't afford to do such things like that. Mostly grarage class inventor have lots of obligation to do and don't have enough resources and spare time (or even to realize their design), to do those things you've suggested.

    I think to put it on the website and let people to make replicas is quite fair.
     
  9. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    30,644
    The only cost would be a couple of phone calls. After all, you already have the machine, right?
     
  10. ismu ::phenomenon::. Registered Senior Member

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    Not just like that...

    Not just like that, of course. How come busy scientist will come over to take a look just because some phonecall from "nobody" ?? :bugeye: And so with TV guys. At least, it's should be done with very convincing resume, from well known scientist. And to get that not so easy also.

    Do you really think that people's standard of lifestyle as same as you and people around you?

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    I admit you're smart James, very smart. Just need to be more open to reality...

    About my machine, of course not done yet. That's why im' here now. To get some review from experts, as i said in the first post. If it has done yet, of course now i'm now in the step to try some publication.

    Don't you think that let serious people make some replicas fair enough? I think, it is very wise and nice to spread the knowledge to all people who need, rather than hide it just to take benefit from the patent for himself.
    Rich man giving, even he has nothing, poor man taking, even he has everything...

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    Internet is one excellent way to spread knowledge. It's a breakthru on communication. Why stuck on conventional style?
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2002
  11. c'est moi all is energy and entropy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    583
    "Scientists would like nothing better than to discover a device for extracting vacuum zero-point energy. It would be an essentially unlimited energy source which would solve all the world's energy problems, eliminate fossil fuel use and so on. When somebody claims to have invented such a device, that turns heads."

    nope, then they crackpots
    Motto: If it sounds too good to be true, then it probably isn't true.

    "No. I think when somebody says "I have invented a free-energy machine", the usual scientific response is "Great! Show me the money!" Scientists like to have evidence that claims are true, and will not settle for somebody's say-so. Derogatory names are unnecessary (though I'm not saying that they aren't used from time to time)."

    what Bill Beaty is saying is reality
    what you are saying is how it should be

    "In my experience, it is ALWAYS the nutters who claim that mainstream scientists are bigots, part of a conspiracy to repress new ideas and so on. The fact is, scientists LOVE new ideas. It's what they do for a living."

    nobody is talking about any conspiracy

    "Let's look at this for a minute, then. What does "forces energy out of the fields" mean? Can you give me an analogy with a field I am familiar with (electric, magnetic, gravitational)?"

    this is what seems to have been observed
    explanation might be wrong

    "What does "precise geometrical load less manner" mean? In what sense is the manner geometrical? In what sense is it load less"

    it relates, I believe, to the way the Adams' motor magnets are placed

    "What kind of asymmetry are we talking about here?"

    I pressume a similar one as when a dipole is formed

    "And what is a "Lenz gate"? Is that a made-up term?"

    I have emailed him about this
    overlooked that one, sorry

    "Not clear to me. The terms "field strength" and "force" have very specifically defined meanings in physics, which are different. You simply can't compare the size of a field to the size of a force. It's comparing apples and oranges."

    you are simply ignoring the rest of the sentence:

    ... my deduction from these facts is that if the field strength of a permanent magnet is artificially reduced below the size of the force that created it minus losses, the field assumes a form of negative value, in order to draw in energy such that the field can be brought back up to full strength.

    ismu answered the rest
     
  12. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    c'est moi:

    <i>Motto: If it sounds too good to be true, then it probably isn't true.</i>

    That's a reasonable rule of thumb. Another popular formulation is "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."

    <i>"Let's look at this for a minute, then. What does "forces energy out of the fields" mean? Can you give me an analogy with a field I am familiar with (electric, magnetic, gravitational)?"

    this is what seems to have been observed
    explanation might be wrong</i>

    I know that is what is claimed. I was querying whether the term "forces energy out of the fields" is meaningful on its own or not, quite apart from any associated claim.

    <i>"What kind of asymmetry are we talking about here?"

    I pressume a similar one as when a dipole is formed </i>

    Why must we presume? Why isn't it explained?

    "Not clear to me. The terms "field strength" and "force" have very specifically defined meanings in physics, which are different. You simply can't compare the size of a field to the size of a force. It's comparing apples and oranges."

    <i>you are simply ignoring the rest of the sentence...

    ... my deduction from these facts is that if the field strength of a permanent magnet is artificially reduced below the size of the force that created...</i>

    My point is that you can't reduce the field strength below the size of a force, because field strengths and forces are not comparable quantities. For example, the units of electric field are N/C, and the unit of force is N. It makes no sense to say 3 N/C < 4 N. That's like saying 3 dollars is less than 2 apples.
     
  13. ismu ::phenomenon::. Registered Senior Member

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    Cheers...!

    Hi guys...

    Feud won't make any good. We better looking for real solution rather than arguing each other's terms. World is already has lots of problems. We better solve it together.

    c'est moi, keep on track to search for aternative energy, and give us informations.

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    James R, according to your background, you must be very good in physics. give us better solutions, suggestions, and supports.

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    me

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    . I should learn physics more --a lot--, and learn from both of you guys.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2002
  14. TIME02112 Registered Senior Member

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    <Img Src=http://www.aethro-kinematics.com/anim98.gif>
    I must say that we should all agree together what Celeste just said here- "Feud won't make any good. We better looking for real solution rather than arguing each other's terms. World is already has lots of problems. We better solve it together."

    If you can at least agrre to this James R. then I believe that you too must have some hope here, and this should not be asking to much for Hope is not the same as blind faith (not putting words in anyone's mouth here, but if the shoe fits...)

    I am only suggesting that for a moment while you are asking these questions James R, and indeed they are very good ones that do need to be addressed before consideration of such a review pannel as you suggested earlier, however in retrospect we must be asking "How Can I Help" instead of the usual retorechial Q&A Debate Prove me wrong, no you prove me wrong as we all know too damned well that two wrongs never make a right, so as you see (being the intelligent being you most certainly are) it is more a matter of a more meaningful mannerisim of proper approach & etiquette unto others who are doing their best to bring forth these new alternative solutions to the marketplace, and need advice before structual critisisim, or a combination of both. Not everyone out there is a huckster, there are many Credible people trying their best hand at this too, and we all need to put away our egos, and worldy desires if we are going to succed in such great benevolent asdpirations.

    Perhaps you could have approched it by evaluating the costs for brining a review pannel to examine his machine before suggesting it, or offering alternatives to get him to bring his machine and present it in a way that would enable the affordability on a shoestring budget, or suggest information to generate funding concepts- Angel Investors, or other groups who may be of assiting some how? after this you could have gone into the structual critisisim in approaching him by say I want to offer you some suggestions if you are really serious, you will need to subject your device in front of a scientific review process (such as.. FAS "Federation of american Scientist @ http://www.fas.org
    or whatever, and explain the type of detailed barrage of Q & A (as you mentioned earlier) that he would need to become familiarized with so that he could prepare himself more properly instead of putting him on the spot and you should know in spite that you were checking his knowledge for your own ratings, Nobody enjoys being isolated, ostracized, or put on the spot when all they intend is to reach out to others with honest intentions of integrity, and I do believe that is clear to anyone who reviews their website. There is no evasivness, just a different perception, and remember not everyone who has inventive genius naturaly should hold a degree from Caltech, MIT or Harvard, nor does this mean if they lack the educational skills to be accepted by these Educational Institutions, it does not mean that their ideas are any less credible!

    <Img Src=http://www.bradandsherry.com/clock.gif>
    "There's my 2 cents of structual critisisim for now."
    <Img Src=http://www.libidium.net/resource/anime/clocks/clock001.gif>
    ---T12
     
  15. ismu ::phenomenon::. Registered Senior Member

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    TIME02112...

    Good comment TIME02112. And thank's for the FAS link.

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  16. TIME02112 Registered Senior Member

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    No problem, glad to be in your corner...
    any "Time"
    <Img Src=http://www.libidium.net/resource/anime/clocks/clock001.gif>
    ---T12

    <Img Src=http://www.tap-ten.com/1gif/t-10.gif>
    http://www.Tap-Ten.com
    <Img Src=http://www.tap-ten.com/1jpg/tban.gif>
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2002
  17. c'est moi all is energy and entropy Registered Senior Member

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    I was impressed by your reply.
     

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