Perinatal influence

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by piffi, Jul 27, 2001.

  1. piffi Nixed Price Rack Registered Senior Member

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    I was thinking that since a baby is conscious for awhile before birth, maybe the memories from the alternate world of the womb could shape it's basic views later in life, thus creating a common denominator in human society.

    It seems that while in the womb, the fetus would experience a sense of being at one with itself and its environment, since every apparent need would be taken care of before it was even thouhgt of. the fetus would be in a world of no anxiety, fear or discomfort until it is born.

    I'm sure being born is one of the most terrifying things we all experience in our lives, and is one thing every person who has ever lived has experienced more or less similarly.

    Imagine this- being wrenched from your eden of no worries and perpetual calmness by a horrible pain and being pushed into a tight space, without ever having the concept of what you could have done to deserve PAIN, which you have no concept of. You also have no concept of deserving things.

    Then, a brilliant tunnel opens in front of, filled with pure white light. I'm sure a baby's first encounter with light would have profound effects on it that would last its entire life, unknowingly to us. Anyway, soon, a god-like figure looms in front of you, something you have never seen before. Then this titan, bathed in light, removes you from your eden. you have completed your journey from the womb to the land of the gods and are quite confused. you hace started to cry, for this world is undesirable and cruel compared to your home. It is cold, hard, and blinding. you hear things, see things, and smell things that are totally strabge. It would be like, for us, suddenly seeing colors out of the spectruma nd experiencing extremes of hot and cold we never knew existed.

    However, I am not concerned with the develpment of children. What interests me are the metaphors for the utopis world, the light, and the gods (the father, doctor or midwives). Do we, after all the pain of birth, subconsciously want to go back to that Eden;the utopia we have been expelled from? Is that the reason we so ardently believe in life after death and heaven and such? Is it simply a shared human trauma?

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  3. kmguru Staff Member

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    Come again? Are you claiming that the fetus does not feel anxiety, fear or discomfort until it is born? Or are you saying that if we start making test tube babies, they wont?

    Please explain...
     
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  5. wet1 Wanderer Registered Senior Member

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    I do not believe I have taken the time to welcome you to the Sciforums piffi. So I do so now. We are glad to have you.

    About the journey out of the womb, it is very illuminating (forgive the pun) and I will throw a few thoughts that way.

    1. A baby first born usually does not smell. One of the things that are done immediately after birth is to remove the mucus from the nostrils. No way to breathe through the nose until this has been done.
    2. The first encounter with light has to be traumatizing. The baby comes from the darkness into brilliant light that is necessary for the doctor to see what he is doing. Even though the baby’s eyes are not ready to see and are protected by the eyelids being closed, the light will penetrate to some degree. And in a way the can not be turned off as it seeps through the eyelids. Quite a shock from the environment it grew in.
    3. The hearing is much the same as the nose. Filled with mucus or amniotic fluid. While this does not prevent hearing while immersed within the fluid, once out into the "world" it becomes a sound deadener. Very similar to ear plugs.
    4. The shared pain of birth is something that is remembered on a subconscious level. Don't believe it? Look at someone in severe pain. A lot of times they will go into the "prenatal position" presumably to seek protection that mind once remembered.
    5. What the baby didn't deserve is that "whack on the ass" and I still resent it!
     
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  7. thecurly1 Registered Senior Member

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    Can babies be psychologically influenced before birth?

    Not in the conventional scene because we can't remember our birth or anything before that. Emotions I don't think would carry into the real world, but physical factors, motherly drinking, smoking or even exercise and proper nutrition can though.
     
  8. Bebelina Feminazi Messiah Valued Senior Member

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    I am stunned!

    And I am offended! Of course a featus feels, has a conscience and remembers exactly everything from previous lives and takes in loads of information from the mother and hears! But after birth these memories slowly fades away, or are hidden, because the baby is so preoccupied with survival and examining the environment it has come to. The process of being born is similar to the one of dying. It´s a passage of light into a new world. For must of us not so new, but to some ...

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  9. thecurly1 Registered Senior Member

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    Actually babies don't have a conscience, we aren't conscience beings until about age 2. If you stick a baby in front of a mirror, they think its another person. They are completely unaware that is a reflection of themselves.

    Prenatal children have no conscience, and can't remember anything. They experience physical pain and join, but nothing emotional from what we can tell.

    We have to remember the baby is only developed enough so that when born it doesn't immediately die. The brain is a very simple item. The nine months concentrate on bodily functions, not higher or even many lower brain functions.
     
  10. Bebelina Feminazi Messiah Valued Senior Member

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    The soul

    The consciousness of the soul is always there within the smallest cell of every being. No matter how physically undeveloped. We don´t need a brain to think and feel. And who has come up with such bizarre ideas that a babies and featuses are totally unconsciense? And why do you think that is right? Science is nothing without awareness the soul. Just friutless, mindless babbling.

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  11. piffi Nixed Price Rack Registered Senior Member

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    Soul

    Bebelina, what need is there for a soul if all of the functions it is used for can be completed by already explained parts of the brain and our consciousness? It seems totally symbolic to me and is disgraceful to call it a scientific necessity. Sure, if we examined the human psyche and found definate holes in where our emotions are coming from, we could deduce an outside (or rather inside) force was causing them. That's exactly what ancient philosophers deduced, because they didn't understand the brain in the context we do today. When the concept of soul was first brought up, it was totally scientifically justified and obviously a basic truth. There was no other way. Now, however, we know a lot about the brain, and the soul seems more of a transient philosophical idea than a scientific truth. There is no scientific necessity for a soul.
    However, about perinatal experiences, the fetus does experience emotional trauma in simply being born. It doesn't matter if we forget the trauma; it's still there. Everything we have ever felt, thought, smelled, tasted, seen, thought we've seen, and heard is up there. We just have a limit to how much we can access at any given time. We are all unique because no one can ever have the same chain of events controlling us subconsciously as another, and no one's experiences are in the same sequence or context. we are all blank palletes covered in the random, beautiful events of earth. Perhaps that is why we can all understand each others' differences so well. (of course minus those with no people skills and a giant, giant head)
     

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