banshee, You must be careful not to judge others by your own standards. I am not lonely although I am alone; there is an important difference. Oh I didn’t mean to imply you had those weaknesses, I do not know you well enough to do that. I was not judging you. Ah you haven’t quite understood yet, never mind. You have an emotional need that I do not have. I could argue that you are weaker than me for that but I could also see how you could see your emotions as strength. I don’t believe there is a right and wrong on this. We are simply very different. I will not judge you for who you are, but you might need to work harder to understand my position before you judge me. It's not that I don't understand love or that I haven't loved, but that I have many other more important things to achieve in this life and personal relationships would be a serious distraction. I am perfectly happy without a close relationship. I am fiercely independent and highly value my solitude and privacy. But as for warmth and love: I have those as well, but different to you. I have three superb daughters who I love dearly – see attached image. But if the future goes as I expect then people will have to learn greater degrees of independence and self-reliance. But that is another story. Cris Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
sighs not all mommys give unconditional love...gee I would have settled for love...my mother sincerely is a nut *shrugs* but I feel unconditional love does exist..but I haven't found it on a two way street..Someone once did love me that way...and I couldn't look past all of the dear abby reasons why we wouldn't make it..lol..and I have really love some and while it would be wrong for me to say I gave that kind of love...I can say I put up with tons of crap...you know the story..
If you can prove there is unconditional love, would that mean there was unconditional hate.Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Cris, I apologize. You are right, we are just different people with a different view and attitude. Which doesn't mean it is wrong. You just sounded so bitter in that earlier post... I am happy to hear you are ok and happy with your life. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Stay the way you are, eveybody has his/her own way of living and loving. Let's respect eachothers thoughts and view on lif and love. I have a son, who I love deeply. He is the best there is, as every mother will say about her child. He turns in a very bright, lovely young man with an own will and view on life and love and all the other important things which come on his way. Guess there is a whole lot more to say and to discuss about the subject. I leave it with this for now...Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Banshee, Awright, excelent. Agreed. And good advice for everyone else as well, I think. Take care Cris Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Respecting the views doesn't mean we can't discuss them though! Chris, I understand that love, to you at least, is unnecessary and overvalued thing; still do you believe it does not better life?
By 'love' I mean romantic love.... Very true. I have known those who were so desperate for 'love' that they got themselves into horridly messy situations. I do not think (although I am no expert) that true love can exist and last except among equals. Is Cris cold? Perhaps. I am often though cold because I grew up without love, and I never let myself develop that need. Give me friends, give me good friends and give me cute partners who are good in bed....(bonus points if such are friends)....I shall be esctatic. But even without, and I have been without, I shall be fine. I consider this a strengh. I do not need, and the sight of need in another terrifies me. Knowing what love is like without sex, knowing what life is like without love, and having the fortitute to get over this, I offer you the wisdom of those more knowledgable than I. (Perhaps not safe for work) As for divorce, is not the simplest solution not to marry in the first place? Come now, do we really think that it is necessary to trap a person to make sure they will love you? Marriage has always been soley about money. First the transfer of property (a woman and her dowry, from father to husband) and then as a way of judging a man's fitness to support her and her children. Tyler: Jealous overmuch? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
IMHO - Unconditional Love is basically an emotion with safety off for survival. There are only two instances that can happen. 1. You are brain washed into believing on something - even to kill (that you will go to heaven...). Basically you are a nutcase. Remember Heaven's Gate? 2. You are in front of a hyperbeing and trust that implicitly to act without condition. The Love part is just an expression. Since this is rare, refer to no.1
Jealous hardly. I consider my strengths that I can deal without many emotions and find them highly illogical. The beauty to love is that logic needs not exist with it. I have many values in life; knowledge and the persuit of knowledge, self understanding, guitar and hockey (being my cheap ones!) and love. To be in love, I have no doubt you will agree, is a great thing. It's not necessary when you get right down to it, but it is something that enhances life. Like I said, you take the good with the bad, the bumps and bruises and falls with the highs, and you keep on enjoying yourself. To tell me that you do not enjoy love is to tell me you are completely unemotional (or, have underlying psychological problems rooted in childhood). And to me, that's sad. Intelligence comes from logic, beauty comes from emotion.
Yes, romantic love can be wonderfull. And, like anything, can be painfull. Love is great, love sucks, life is great, life sucks, do you see? But cowardly? To not feel love? To attempt to avoid love would perhaps be foolish....but simply not to feel hardly constitutes cowardice. If one had only reason without passion or passion without reason! kmguru: Last time I trusted Cthulhu implicitly he ate my date for the evening! *Sigh* And not in a good way. But of course *points at signature* Cthulhu loves me.
tyler, Like nearly everything in life a balance tends to be healthy. Evolution has resulted in humans having emotions that have helped us to survive. Anger helps us fight our enemies where only the strongest survive, love makes us show compassion for others and protect our children, and as such helps the community survive. If you believe that love must be present for you to feel satisfied with your life then life will not be good for you when love is missing and you will spend much time searching. My life is complete without emotional love, and if love presents itself then it becomes a bonus, to be savored and enjoyed, and then let go so that life can return to normal. Love is fine for some of the time, but what I don’t need to do is to organize my life so that there is someone else around all of the time, because most of the time emotions are not paramount. Life is full of many things and love is only just one of them. Some people need and depend on their emotions, others have been brainwashed into thinking that emotional love is vital, others, like me, can find a satisfactory, healthy, and very happy balance. So no, life is not necessarily better with love; since the sacrifices and time used to find and maintain a loving state very often outweigh any perceived gain. Cris (note no h)
You have no idea how sad I am for you! Believe me, I am well aware that love comes with great pitfalls. Believe me, I understand it can cause great unhappiness if you believe love is a necessity and spend time searching for it. The fact is: 1) If it really is love, the pitfalls won't be noticed or cared for 2) If you're a logical human being, this feeling doesn't come about. Like I said, I don't worry because I realize the futility of it, so I don't worry about this. Cris, I believe your comments to make you one of the most pathetic human beings I have encountered. Probably one of the more intelligent and logical though. I have never seen beauty come from anything but emotions, and you have eliminated this from life. The fact that you even use the word 'satisfactory' to describe your life saddens me, I would never think of using that word. Satisfactory means that it's okay; not bad, nothing incredible. Happy is another one of those words, not very strong. I believe your life is probably perfectly healthy, but I am very glad I won't use it.
Love can lead to terrible things...look at these guys! At first I thought it was cute but....one begins to worry about thier sanity. http://www.sciforums.com/f19/s/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6206&pagenumber=2 Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Tyler Ignore him Cris. I like you and so does Cthulhu. We think you are a fine man, and we have never even met you. And Cthulhu dosen't exist, so what does that say?! Never walked outside on a starry night, or studied the dynamics of the 'evolution' of the universe? Or taken calculus, and got to the point where you realize that "Wow! Between any two numbers there are an infinite number of numbers!" and had the realization soak through your body, delaying worries about your grades in the class? Have you never dreamed in numbers? Of manipulating equations? I have, and it is utterly stunning. Study the way stars convert hydrogen into higher elements. Study the way giants eventually nova because they have built up too much lead in thier core. Gold, and Uranium, are synthesized in the resulting nova. These stars will never love you. They will never care, and they 'died' long before humans even evolved. But, I cannot describe this process without a smile.
Tyler, I realize you are still a child, although I am sure you do not think of yourself that way, but nevertheless you have not lived long enough to comprehend my perspective, and no matter how many words of description I use you will remain ignorant until you experience life for yourself. At the moment you possess only a naïve idealistic worldview, and I know that many aspects of this view will be shattered when real life finally hits you. I’ve been there and seen for myself and I now have three teenage daughters; the youngest is 15, who often indicate the same limited view that you are demonstrating. If you have any wisdon then you should listen to what I say rather than irrationally assume your lack of experince makes you somehow superior to me. Your sadness reveals only your inability to understand my position. You would be wise to withhold your judgment until you are in a position to properly comprehend. Do you? How? You cannot have experienced anything relevant yet. You are speaking only from theory, and you are only hoping that you know. Well no. Love doesn’t feed you or sustain you. Savor love for what it is, a pleasant emotion and no more. If you seek only love then your life will be a failure and you will end in misery. Find a balance. That is a double edged sword, compliments combined with an insult. It doesn’t matter though since I know you are incapable of understanding just yet. You don’t seem to have understood me at all. I have never said I have eliminated emotions from my life. They have their place but they don’t rule me. I did? The context was about a satisfactory balance not about a satisfactory life. Life can comprise emotions and intellectual pursuits. The correct balance achieves the best life can offer. An extreme at either end results in some degree of distress. Are you saying that love doesn’t make you happy? States of superlatives tend to be impossible to maintain for any significant duration. So tell me, what is better than being happy? And whatever you choose can you maintain that state for any practical length of time. Balance. Cris
Cris, what point is there to debate other than to learn? I have never argued without any other reason My point of view, Cris, is that you are eliminating one thing from your life which can (note: CAN) be great. I realize many things in life can be great. To me, I love just playing shinny (Canuck word for outdoor hockey. sorry if you already know this but I have run into many an American who doesn't know the word), I greatly enjoy playing my guitar, I could not live (or, not enjoy life) without a persuit of philosophical knowledge. I believe love can be just another on the list which enriches life. I fail to see the logic in erasing one thing which can be great from your life. Then I think (and please, correct me if this is wrong): maybe he figures the chances of pain or general unhappiness outweighs the possibility of generaly great times. And that's where my sad comment comes in. I see this as sad, where love and emotional connection with another human being has more a chance of minus than plus, I see this as a sad and sorry point in life. You're right, maybe I will end up coming to this conclusion in my own life and experiences, but I hope not. I realize it can lead to a very healthy, balanced life, but not one I hope I end up in. As for Xev: hmmm, you had your place in those posts as well!! As for your comments on beauty in numbers. Is it the numbers themselves that make them beautiful, or your emotional interputation of them? Like you said, the truth 'soaks' into you. Logically speaking, what beauty or amazement is there in the creation or eolution of stars? It's all very explainable and logical in the long run.
Unconditional Love Unconditional Love is God... Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Is the Love Jesus was talking about: Love your enemies! Love people no matter how they are and no matter what they do. For example, God Loves us even though we sin. Jesus either. He died for our sins. If you have unconditional Love in your Heart, you'll Love everyone. You'll allways follow the Word. This is the True acceptance of Jesus in your Heart: is the acceptance of Christ, Love. That's unconditional Love: the highter and most powerful Truth that exists. Love, Nelson
tyler, I hope I didn’t imply that you should not debate, but that you will be more effective debating from something you really know, rather than theory. And if you do want to theorize then don’t phrase your statement as if you know. I hope that made sense. But, hey, I’m here to learn as well, and really this is my third year here and I truly have learnt a great deal. So enjoy your time here, and if I seem belligerent at times then ignore me. No I’m not eliminating anything, I’m just not actively pursuing something that some others consider important. When you are young and lack ‘loving’ experiences, and are bombarded by TV shows and songs that push the idea continually then it should come as no surprise that to a large extent you are being indoctrinated to believe what you are hearing. The idea that love solves everything is a mythical nonsense. But you do need to try it and discover for yourself. And as I said earlier the personalities of some people are very dependent on emotional activity. It is not that I don’t have emotions it is just that I am not dependent on them. Do you see the difference? Oh and I’m not an American BTW, I’m British, but I live permanently in California. Right, and here we are in agreement. I’m not erasing love from my life, I’m just not looking for it or feel a strong desire to go and look for it. I’m not sure I quite understand what you are saying here, but I’ll take a guess. There are those who avoid love because when love is lost or is removed then they are very afraid of being hurt. That I agree is very sad. One should leave oneself open to any and all experiences, and that has been something I have always done. And at times I have taken it to an extreme where I have deliberately placed myself in awkward or difficult situations just to test my ability on how well I can solve the problem. Don’t pre-judge, just stay cool and allow things to happen, and experience them. Good or bad, it doesn’t matter, every event is an opportunity to learn and to experience. Emotions have their place, use to them to make yourself happy, don’t let them control you since then your life will become erratic and miserable. Have fun whatever, Cris
Truthseeker, You would be wise to keep religion to the religion forum. Not everyone is happy to have religion rammed in their face all the time. And the science forums are where many people come to escape from your particular diatribes. Cris
TruthSeeker... *Unconditional Love is God... For example, God Loves us even though we sin. Jesus either. He died for our sins.* Sorry, I disagree firmly with you about seeing god as unconditional love! You know how many people die every day because of this love of god??? Jesus, look at the world!!! All those godforsaken holy wars!!! I am real sorry, you tick me off with this crap. Shouldn't have replied on this, get so angry when I read this kind of nonsense. Jesus died for our sins??? Where did it lead his followers??? Into holy wars!!! Oh, I quit it already. I agree with Cris. Please take the god-talking to the Religion Forum. I don't go there, and have good reasons for not going there...
"I don’t see that being in a state of love is either necessary or highly desirable. Once you can ignore the media pressure, and have the courage to learn how to support and depend on yourself, then partnerships can then be seen as a disadvantage rather than an advantage." "So if you really want love with another then you will need to work for it, and expect a great deal of pain en-route. Learning to be truly independent and learning to love yourself is a far more practical solution to a very happy and contented lifestyle." These were the comments which sparked my interest in discovering your true feelings on the situation. In the above comments you state, quite clearly, that love and relationships are a minus to life. That love and a loving relationship are not enriching aspects of a life. My point is, being in a loving relationship is not about having "the courage to learn how to support and depend on yourself", it's about enjoying life with someone else. It's about sharing yourself and your life. It's about just that, an emotional feeling. "be truly independent and learning to love yourself is a far more practical solution" Why? Because it's easier? Because it brings about less pain (incidentally, meaning it's easier)? And is that for everyone? As a note: I watch Discovery Channel/Simpsons/Third Rock. I read Kant/Neitzsche/Smith/Marx/Lenin/Mao/Thomas/Plato... My favourite movies are Usual Suspects/Requiem For A Dream/Pi/Spanish Prisoner. My music choices are Stones/Rage/Hendrix/Radiohead. Believe me, the entertainment media reaching me is far from your stereotypical view of a young person today's interests. I'm not claiming to believe myself older than I am, but I think you overestimate the patheticness of all youth.
