"Perfect Love"

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by razz, Jan 26, 2002.

  1. razz Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    224
    Does it exist?

    Ok this is quite simple....
    what is unconditional love and does it exist?

    Cheers
    RazZ:bugeye:
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2002
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. armyboyjay Registered Member

    Messages:
    16
    I'm surprised no one answered this yet...

    From my understanding, unconditional love is a completely one-sided love.

    Here is a simple story that may help you out.

    Imagine me, Armyboyjay, finding a man, beating him, raping his wife, stealing everything he owns, and running off with his children. The man, in turn, finds me one day down the road. I am hurt, bleeding and needing medical attention. He then brings me to a hospital, pays for all my bills, and leaves enough money for any leftover expenses. He later comes back to check up on me, and says that he forgives my crimes against him.

    Does that make sense? It seems almost impossible, a love that is not deserved or recipricated. I have yet to find a person in my life who would be insane enough to ever consider it. But that's just my understanding.

    Any thoughts on what unconditional love is? I'd like to hear them

    -armyboyjay

    PS: [If you are crazy enough to take into account the four gospels as an accurate account of the life of Jesus Christ, I believe that is what many Christians believe Jesus exhibited. But that is an entirely different topic in itself.]
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. Rick Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,336
    Bull Shit!

    MOMMIES!!!!... guys are we forgetting them????they give us their unconditional love dont they?

    bye!
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. Markx Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    970
    I agree.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  8. goofyfish Analog By Birth, Digital By Design Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,331
    I think what armyboyjay is getting at is the belief that Unconditional Love is granting validity for everything and all beings to exist just as they are. And that is a tough ideal to reach, even for a mommy. Would your mother truly stand in front you while you wielded a knife and killed her, and not hate you for it? Would her love for you prevent her from trying to harm you, as you are intent on harming her, even to the extent of not protecting herself physically? I'm not sure. The ego is a very powerful force.

    Just playing Devil’s Advocate.

    Peace.
     
  9. Rick Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,336
    Hi Goofy,
    if my mom tells me to kill an innocent person i would kill him.i love her so much,same is at her side. and who is the ass hole who wants to kill his mother?,he"ll probably be a psycho.


    bye!
     
  10. goofyfish Analog By Birth, Digital By Design Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,331
    Er... Ok, Norman, calm down... :bugeye:

    Peace.
     
  11. *stRgrL* Kicks ass Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,495
    Unconditional love to me is this...

    The love I have for my daughter. If she came to me and said she killed someone, or if she were gay, or if she was a heroin addict... I would still have the same love I had for her the day she was born

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    Groove on
     
  12. Rick Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,336
    Hhahahahahaahahahahahahaha...
    hahahahahahaaaaa...

    bye!
     
  13. armyboyjay Registered Member

    Messages:
    16
    Xez, excellent scripture. Not too many people go that far to do their homework.

    In regard to unconditional love and Jesus Christ, I think that most Christians believe that he exhibited it on the cross.

    Another story (because I find stories enjoyable and easy to follow):

    Suppose there is a doctor who has the cure for cancer. He opens his doors to everyone who is sick with the disease. Irregardless of your past, financial status, age, race, or sex, he is willing to share this remedy for anyone who is willing. Those who come are healed. However, many people who pass outside his doors simply cannot believe that this doctor had the cure, or do not believe they are sick. "Cure for cancer, yeah right." "Who in their right mind would go to a doctor who doesn't charge anything." "Who is he kidding. I'm not sick." "Cancer. Ag. It's just a headache." Yet the doctor is inside, waiting, for anyone broken enough to stumble across his way and ask for healing.

    I suppose on a spiritual level, Christians believe the disease is called that nasty Biblical S-word (sin). Christ's forgiveness on the cross is the cure. At least that is how I understand it.

    Does that make sense? My analogy falls short, of course, but I hope I got the right idea across.

    And that is exactly way I want to believe it and I don't want to believe it. I don't want to believe it because I'd actually have to admit that there is something wrong with me, that I'm not nearly as good as I thought I was, and that I need help. But, at the same time, I want to believe it because it sounds so, so good.

    Afterthoughts?

    Unconditional love is insane. I don't see how many moms do it. And I wish I had a girlfriend like Adam. He is graced.

    -armyboyjay
     
  14. wet1 Wanderer Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,616
    Unconditional love is the love you feel when you are doing the right thing. Being true to yourself in the first place and your heart tells you exactly how to act to someone you love unconditinal. That can be a lot more then only mothers and children.

    What about unconditional love for Nature and all what belongs to Her and Earth?

    And the love you feel for your soul mate if you are lucky enough to find him/her? There you have something. Love someone without selfishness, then you have unconditional love. Being able to take someone else for what he/she is, without trying to change that person. And still being true to yourself and what you stand for...

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  15. Tyler Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,888
    Love is an emotion, not something you can put into words.
    Love is simply that - love. It's just a title we assign to an emotion. There is no real way to describe it, it's a feeling you have. Artists and Authors have been trying to describe it for centuries!
     
  16. wet1 Wanderer Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,616
    Yes, I agree with you Tyler.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    What would you say then, if someone asks you to tell what you feel exactly? How would you describe it? What would you do...?
     
  17. Tyler Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,888
    I'd say to me love is when you can't stay angry. Love is when you look at someone, and not only do problems go away, but it's like they never existed. Love is when you don't have to ask the question - am I in love? - because the answer is glarringly obvious.

    That's it to me.

    Yourself?
     
  18. wet1 Wanderer Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,616
    I second your post Tyler.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    Yes I do love someone unconditional and only seeing him, being near him, fills me with a great joy. It is the feeling, just too wonderful for words. I can't imagine this will ever change.

    I don't think it does. This is my life, my love...

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  19. wet1 Wanderer Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,616
    Tyler...even better...my love, my life...with tears if necessarry!!!

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  20. Tyler Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,888
    Enjoy it!
     
  21. Cris In search of Immortality Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,188
    Banshee, razz, et-all,

    Love is an ill-defined emotion of dubious long-term value. In practice, love is really a combination of other more easily understood emotions. Primarily it consists of feelings of security, satisfaction, contentment, loyalty, and trust, etc. Reduce or remove any one of these components and love will not be present, or will be seriously limited.

    Note that you rarely find men discussing among themselves aspects of love. Typically such discussions are overwhelmingly a female arena. This is a direct result of an evolutionary effect where child rearing required such security, even to the point where a mother would sacrifice herself for her offspring. Ultimately love is a mechanism for survival.

    Most people find such emotions understandably attractive. But often love is sought because of personal weaknesses. For example putting your total trust and dependence in the strengths (strengths that you lack) of a partner may well give all the aspects of security and contentment, but the partnership is often one-sided since the other partner cannot then depend on complementary strength. If the partner then dies, or leaves then the dependent often suffers severe depression and inability to function properly.

    The best partnerships come when both sides have equal levels of strengths, perhaps complimentary strengths, but all factors should be present. We all suffer weaknesses from time to time and it is those times when the strengths of the partner become vital for the relationship to continue. If any of those aspects are missing then one partner will feel betrayed and confused, and love will be false.

    The best loving partnerships comes from stable couples who can each offer equal value to each other.

    An increasing number of partnerships fail because the relationship is one-side, but also because many find that the need to depend on another is no longer as important as it was many years ago. And most of this is coming from females. As equal rights for men and women gradually become a reality, women are now increasingly asserting their newfound independence and no longer need to depend on the man to be the provider. Many men have not realized this progressive change yet, and must pay the price.

    The divorce rate in the USA is now at around 50% to 60%, i.e. most marriages fail. This is higher among young people, who due to their immaturity and inexperience, form unequal partnerships as described above. As soon as one side finds independent strength then they prefer to go it alone or seek a stronger partner.

    No I think that is wrong. Real effective love requires some work. I think learning how to do the right thing and how to act correctly results in effective love, and not the reverse. It isn’t your heart that tells you how to act it is your intellect. The emotions (heart) then will fall into place. If you hope love will just appear without effort then you are deluded, you would be trusting to luck only.

    This unfortunately implies that love is the normal state and that one is unlucky if not in love. This attitude that is forced on everyone by the media and trashy love novels, encourages too many people to assume that they are somehow incomplete if they are not in a loving relationship. Unfortunately most people are not in such relationships and the continued propagation of such expectations that they should be is cruel and immoral.

    I don’t see that being in a state of love is either necessary or highly desirable. Once you can ignore the media pressure, and have the courage to learn how to support and depend on yourself, then partnerships can then be seen as a disadvantage rather than an advantage. All relationships involve a considerable degree of compromise, and often both never achieve what they would like to do if they were single. That is a loss.

    And events in life do change, so an expectation that love will last forever is shown to be an illusion. In most cases love does not last, so one should not expect it.

    I remember a deep loving relationship where I remember being so satisfied that the thought that it could possibly end just didn’t occur to me. We divorced 7 years later. The marriage lasted 18 years. We are now two very independent people and extremely good friends, but neither of us has any plans or intentions in participating in relationships with anyone ever again. It just isn’t necessary.

    I am sure there will be those who cannot imagine not being in a relationship, and those who are desperately seeking love, I suspect mainly because of media pressure, but most do not find lasting love, and always think they are to blame.

    In our modern society independent survival is now easily possible and very practical. The old idea that girls should marry quickly and raise children and depend for their survival on their husbands has now almost vanished. And the basic unit of the family is also beginning to dissolve.

    The emotional blackmail spread by the media and religion that love is all you need is irresponsible and causes massive pain and suffering for many young people who do not have the wisdom and experience to decide for themselves.

    So if you really want love with another then you will need to work for it, and expect a great deal of pain en-route. Learning to be truly independent and learning to love yourself is a far more practical solution to a very happy and contented lifestyle.

    Cris
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2002
  22. Tyler Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,888
    Possibly the coldestpost I've ever read, and I'm a generally cold person.

    I'll agree with you that many young people (around my age and up) are searching for love due to a lack of self respect or strength. I'll agree that love is not necessary. But I will strongly state that love, while not necessary, is an amazing, beautiful and enriching thing. Love can be an incredible emotion with both incredible highs and incredible lows. Love can be something that makes you feel like you're floating aboce the skies, or lieing in the gutter with rats. It's a matter of finding the right person. It's a matter of finding someone compatible who loves you. If you find the right person, you should never feel the gutter though. Or, if you do, it's going to be a short-lived thing.

    You suggest (I believe) that love is no longer necessary and will likely die off eventually. In America (phew, not an American!), the divorce rate per marriage is 50-60% at any given moment. Take a wild stab at how many of those are repeat divorcees!

    Yes, many people get divorced but that does not mean everyone WILL. It only means that you grow up more intelligent and less ignorant.

    I'm sorry for your ended relationship but I believe your lack of desire to be in another one is nothing more than a still hurting heart that doesn't feel the need or desire to be hurt again. Personally, I view that as quite cowardly. If you fall off your bike, you get up and brush yourself off and get right back on it. How do you know you won't find someone to share your life with later? You've given up.

    I know the relationship I'm in has a very, very small chance of being a life-long one, but I don't care. It's called experimenting and it's done until you find something that just doesn't end.

    Personally, I follow my bike quote. When I get hurt, I get up, brush myself off, realize tomorrow's another day, and get to work.
     
  23. wet1 Wanderer Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,616
    Cris, *The best loving partnerships comes from stable couples who can each offer equal value to each other.*

    Exactly!!!

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    My goodness, what a lecture...

    I am sorry you feel that way. You must be a lonely person. I know very well how to live on my own, without love from a partner. Did so for years. Somehow, with my weaknesses, as you call it, my life always turned out the right way. Living from out my heart and Spirit.

    Hope the coldness in your heart will soon be warmed up again. Good luck, you need it...
     

Share This Page