Peace Now is a virus:

Of course they were. There were plenty of violent attacks and bombings perpetrated by Umkhonto we Sizwe, the armed wing of the ANC, albeit not on the scale of Palestinian resistance seen today. The ANC have only recently been taken off the US watchlist of terrorist organizations. Having said that, the armed struggle was the only way forward for the masses to shake of the yoke of white oppression that was militarily enforced. But thankfully gave way to broad based non violent protest until, eventually, sanity prevailed and real negotiations were initiated. It was due to the genuine humanity and heartfelt reconciliation efforts of De Klerk and Mandela (and others) that human rights are so rigidly entrenched in the new SA constitution.

Yes, just as the South African regime committed atrocities against blacks in the name of elitism, race and FEAR. Survival was at the heart of it. Just like Israel. The SA example shows that survival and human rights can co exist.

Yes, sadly so. But, tellingly, speaking volumes regarding hypocrisy. The West reacted very differently to the ANC violent struggle, with open support, and no real condemnation of its terrorist tactics.

Yes, in essence I agree. Thankfully world opinion against Israel is shifting to the negative. And now would be a good time for a non violent approach.

Yes, sadly, as long as there is bloodshed, all hands are stained.

 

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Who said? You never heard of Nelson Mandela the terrorist?

Of course it is not fair to compare Israel to South Africa, because as Demond Tutu said, the South Africans did not practice collective punishment like the Israelis do.

 

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Whatever. I never heard of African suicide bombers killing children at bus stops. I heard about an oppressive South African regime. I heard about concerts and videos like Sun City or Mandela Day
The blacks were always seen as the victims of the oppresive white regime, whereas the Palestinians are seen as bloody handed murderers for their attacks upon civilians. The world will never unite in favor of the Palestinians so long as they continue their terrorist tactics. With each attack upon civilians, they strengthen Israel's hand.

 

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because the right wing media refuses to show the truth the vast majority of palestinians use peaceful means.

So than why has most of the world united in favor of the palestinians already?

Well i suppose that Israel's flagrent attacks upon civilians and attacking peaceful protestors than charging them with assulting an officer never get out it would strentghen Israel hand. Good thing their are people working on getting the truth out.

 

What Americans do not hear would fill a library that goes around the world, many times. You should ask yourself why Palestinians are "seen" like that.

Is that how its working out in Iraq and Afghanistan for the Americans?

The reason why Mandela was in prison for 25 years is because he refused to renounce violence. This is all common knowledge.

 

Completely different situation. Israel can't pull out. No amount of terrorism will make them give up. For a more apt comparison, consider the political environment in the US right after Sept 11. If the terrorists were commiting their atrocities in the US rather than Iraq and Afghanistan; the US public would be crying for blood.

Did the ANC commit acts of terrorism against civilian targets? Because that's what makes the Palestinians look like savages.

 

Yes they did, in fact no one knows exactly how many people they killed in all their decades of terrorism, they did not do body counts either.

Unaimed rockets by an imprisoned population are not savagery, they are desperation. Precision guided chemical weaponry on schools, cop stations, universities and market places is savagery.

 

Well than that makes the Israelis look like shit because if the Israelis "not targeting civilians" kills a greater percentage of civilians than the palestinains trying too

 

I think "shit" is a very inadequate term for the kind of people who set sniper sights on babies

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http://www.palestinechronicle.com/view_article_details.php?id=15299

 

If that's true, then that was very bad PR on the part of the South African government. I never heard about any of that. I just heard a bunch of celebrities saying "I ain't gonna play, Sun City!" But regardless, Israel obviously has a much better PR department. The Palestinians can't get away with terrorism. It's not going to scare Israel, and it turns the world against them.

 

I think Americans are the only ones taken in by Israeli PR, I've never seen the same level of cluelessness in any other place I have been. The British openly support Palestinians and many people are seen wearing keffiyehs as a demonstration of support. American ignorance about the realities of what is happening in the world is only comparable to their ignorance of what they do abroad to other people. Its why they get sucked into ridiculous shit like the Israel orchestrated Iraq war.

 

really mad?
i think you should recheck your stats, you think a pollie like obama (which is what you keep saying he is not a hero who does the right thing because its right but rather a true polition) would be throwing away the US stance on israil and taking a harder line AGAINST them if thats not where the public surport lay?

 

You're confusing me with someone else. I"ve never said that about Obama. I've said that about Clinton, but not Obama. I think Obama is a far Left true believer who intends to push the US as far left as possible. As to his policy regarding Isreal, I believe he's anti-Israel (or perhaps just pro-Palestinian) and plans to turn US policy against Israel as much as possible.

 

good

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It would be nice to see one of those votes in the SC FINALLY go "pro human rights" insted of "Pro israil"

 

I doubt Obama will change anything or that he is pro-Palestine. Remember his silence during the Gaza Massacre when he did not have the same reticence during the attacks in Mumbai. I'm not holding my breath

 

During the struggle, very little "white" South African news, including bomb attacks on civilians, made it to the West, due to isolation, sanctions and media bans. You are, unfortunately a product of your media, so your perception is limited to what few facts reached the West.

There is very little difference in reality to the Palestinian struggle today, and the ANC struggle during the apartheid years. Both are struggles for freedom, dignity and human rights. Western hypocrisy and favoritism is the reason for any perceived difference.

Regarding PR, obviously Israel has the better PR. They OWN the media. Period.

 

sam, i know you want things to change quickly but reality says it CANT change quickly. He has made a start by comming down on israil for there illegal setlements, if israil keep pushing he will have no choice but to push back harder. Santions are a long way off but now they are a possability if israil doesnt behave itself where as before it was Washington's FP dictated from Tala vid now its starting to be directed from Washington again

 

What facts did he change on the ground?

 

That is, unless the Palestinians commit some atrocity. Even if he is pro-Palestinian, Obama can't be seen as pro-terrorism.

 

Or are seen to be committing some atrocity. All you have to do is convince enough Americans from poor people trapped in a ghetto prison because they are not Jews. Its not like Americans are going to think rationally, I mean they think men in mud huts who travel mostly on horseback are about to annihilate them so that they have been bombing them for seven years going on infinity now.