Paul of Tarsus: The Evil Self-Appointed Apostle

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M*W: Since c20 joined the religion forum, it seems that the issues regarding Paul, the liar, thief and murderer from Tarsus, who wrote most of or influenced the writings of the NT, have reared their ugly heads in Paul's favor. Many of you have already researched Paul's mission and have found it to be the opposite of or detrimental to Jesus' actual mission. I'd like for those of you who have researched Paul and his post-Jesus deception to add your comments here for the benefit of the christians on board. Thank you!

 

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Like I have said M*W - Why would Jesus ask that you create dissention between Himself and Paul?
Paul was a murderer. He murdered Christians specifically. After meeting God, Saul/Paul was transformed and he received the grace that is only available through Jesus Christ. Saul/Paul acknowledges the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ many times throughout his letters. How can Paul be both for and against Jesus?
You are very wrong M*W. Very wrong indeed. It is a terrible wickedness to try and create this division between two brothers. If you cause any of the little ones to lose faith it would be better for you to have a millstone tied around your neck and you be thrown in the sea. Choose your actions very very carefully. This is a warning. It is not good what you do here.

c20

 

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c20H25N3o: Like I have said M*W - Why would Jesus ask that you create dissention between Himself and Paul?
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M*W: Unfortunately, Jesus wouldn't ask this, because he didn't know someone like Paul would take over his ministry when he specifically left his brother, James, in control of the Jerusalem church. Paul then killed James -- threw him off a balcony. Jesus NEVER KNEW PAUL, but MM knew Paul and how evil he was. With James assassinated, Jesus' ministry fell into MM's hands, and she proceeded to carry Jesus' ministry to Europe as did Joseph of Arimathea (Jesus' uncle) to Britain.
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c20: Paul was a murderer. He murdered Christians specifically. After meeting God, Saul/Paul was transformed and he received the grace that is only available through Jesus Christ.
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M*W: Paul had an epileptic seizure on the Road to Damascus and what he thought he saw and heard was just an hallucination, not uncommon in epileptics.
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c20: Saul/Paul acknowledges the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ many times throughout his letters. How can Paul be both for and against Jesus?
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M*W: Paul teaches of a man he never knew. He embellished the myth he created with earlier dying demigod savior myths, and he sold (for money) his myth of Jesus to the Gentiles.
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c20: You are very wrong M*W. Very wrong indeed. It is a terrible wickedness to try and create this division between two brothers.
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M*W: Paul and Jesus were NEVER brothers.
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c20: If you cause any of the little ones to lose faith it would be better for you to have a millstone tied around your neck and you be thrown in the sea. Choose your actions very very carefully. This is a warning. It is not good what you do here.
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M*W: Oh, grow up! Don't tell me what I should write here. You are the last person who should be telling anyone what they should or shouldn't write here! Your warnings are worthless -- just like you! If you don't like what I write, do what you've told the rest of us to do to you -- PUT ME ON IGNORE. YOU AND I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO TALK ABOUT - but I will not stop teaching the truth. If you don't like what the members of this forum write proving the lies of your beliefs -- then go to a christian site where you can wallow in the lies of christianity.

 

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M*W we are all brothers in Christ. Paul knew the grace of the Lord Jesus, as do I.

These are the words of Paul of whom we speak. This Spirit is the true Spirit. It is the Holy Spirit and all those who testify that Jesus is Lord also have the Holy Spirit as indeed Paul has the Holy Spirit. This is not a spirit to go up against. It is not wise.

1Cor.1
[1] Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
[2] Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
[3] Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
[4] I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;
[5] That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge;
[6] Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:
[7] So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:
[8] Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
[9] God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.
[10] Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

(KJV)


May the evil spirit in you come OUT in the name of Jesus Christ!

 

c20H25N3o: M*W we are all brothers in Christ. Paul knew the grace of the Lord Jesus, as do I.
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M*W: You know what you think is the "grace of the Lord Jesus," but you only know what Paul wrote about it in the NT. You don't really know the real Jesus -- no one does with the exception of a few including James, Peter, 'John', and an illustrious few (Philip, Thomas, Thecla and MM, etc.)
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c20: These are the words of Paul of whom we speak. This Spirit is the true Spirit. It is the Holy Spirit and all those who testify that Jesus is Lord also have the Holy Spirit as indeed Paul has the Holy Spirit. This is not a spirit to go up against. It is not wise.
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M*W: No, it is not the 'true' spirit of Jesus. Paul invented the holy spirit as a myth which he took from earlier dying demigod savior pagan myths. I urge you to study the truth about Paul. Do you think I could possibly be afraid to go up against Paul or even Jesus -- or even God? Hell, NO! If these entities exist, then they would want the truth to be known. What you know is NOT the truth! Even so, you won't burn in any hell as there is no hell. Hell can only exist in your mind, and usually that's where hell does its most easy work.
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c20: 1Cor.1
[1] Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
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M*W: Paul was not 'called to be an apostle of Jesus,' Paul self-appointed himself as an Apostle of Jesus Christ -- Paul never even knew Jesus, so there's your proof.
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c20: [2] Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
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M*W: Again, said by Paul, and I assure you he did all this traveling to collect money from those he was lying to.
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c20: [3] Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
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M*W: Sure, the Gentile Pagans had been given yet another pagan god to worship, and Paul got rich from it.
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c20: [4] I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;
[5] That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge;
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M*W: This is what the pagan Gentiles wanted to hear. They believed in various and sundry household gods. Paul presented the myth of a dying demigod savior Jesus to them and they bought it.
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c20: [6] Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:
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M*W: i.e. brainwashed.
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c20: [7] So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:
[8] Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
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M*W: Now what pagan gentile could do without a god who "saved" them from all their pagan gods?
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c20: [9] God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.
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M*W: This sounds like a 'bait and switch' advertising ploy.
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c20: [10] Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
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M*W: This is Paul preaching that the gentiles would be included in with the rest of the poppulations, like the jews and christians, you know, Mithras and the others for that 'belonging' to the mainstream of society, was a nice proposition for them, etc.


May the evil spirit in you come OUT in the name of Jesus Christ![/QUOTE]

 

c20H25N3o: May the evil spirit in you come OUT in the name of Jesus Christ!
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M*W: You are overstepping your bounds here. You should worry only about your soul -- not mine. In fact, in case you didn't get the point I made at the beginning of this thread, there is no need for you to keep telling me what you believe. I know what you believe to be false. I am awaiting the posts of others who have actually done some research on Paul. Obviously, you haven't, so there is no further need for you to respond to this post. The evil spirit dwells in YOU!

 

Um... wasn't it James the brother of John who was murdered... by Herod?

Acts 12
1 Now about that time Herod the king stretched forth his hands to vex certain of the church.
2 And he killed James the brother of John with the sword. ​

 

David F.: Um... wasn't it James the brother of John who was murdered... by Herod?
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M*W: It was James, the brother of Jesus who was murdered by Paul.
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Acts 12
1 Now about that time Herod the king stretched forth his hands to vex certain of the church.
2 And he killed James the brother of John with the sword.
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M*W: Luke said this by Paul's direction. It seems to cover-up the fact that Paul pushed James off of a balcony. However, James could also be John's and Jesus' brother. Paul instigated the stoning of Stephen, too. I think Acts is covering up Paul's misdeeds.

[Side Note] In the Gospel of Mary Magdlene, Mary is often believed to be the Apostle John, the Beloved Disciple, who wrote The Gospel of John and Revelations.

 

Could you expand on that?

 

How do you know this?

There is certainly no cover up that Paul consented to Sephen's stoning. Why would he cover up one murder but not the other?

 

David F.: How do you know this?
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M*W: I bought the English translation of The Gospel of Mary Magdalene.
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David F.: There is certainly no cover up that Paul concented to Sephen's stoning.
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M*W: Like I've been saying, Paul was an evil man who destroyed the truth about Christianity.

 

So, the gospel of MM says that Paul was an evil liar? Can you give us a quote? We know he certainly was not a nice man before Damascus, but was he still afterwards? Is it possible he changed?

Where can we find info about the gospel of MM and any insight into why we should believe it?

It seems like Paul was quite a superman/evil-genius to have so duped the entire Christian world and all the apostles to the point where he was overridingly influential in all the early Christian writings, including those of all the original Apostles. I thought you said all the gospels were written after 100AD (which I don't believe, but let's go with that for a moment), yet Paul would have to be dead by then. Is this what you are telling us?

 

I just went to the Gospel of Mary Magdalene and I don't find the name Paul (or Saul) anywhere in the document? The document is rather short so I thought I would post it:

The Gospel According to Mary Magdalene
Chapter 4
(Pages 1 to 6 of the manuscript, containing chapters 1 - 3, are lost. The extant text starts on page 7...)

. . . Will matter then be destroyed or not?
22) The Savior said, All nature, all formations, all creatures exist in and with one another, and they will be resolved again into their own roots.
23) For the nature of matter is resolved into the roots of its own nature alone.
24) He who has ears to hear, let him hear.
25) Peter said to him, Since you have explained everything to us, tell us this also: What is the sin of the world?
26) The Savior said There is no sin, but it is you who make sin when you do the things that are like the nature of adultery, which is called sin.
27) That is why the Good came into your midst, to the essence of every nature in order to restore it to its root.
28) Then He continued and said, That is why you become sick and die, for you are deprived of the one who can heal you.
29) He who has a mind to understand, let him understand.
30) Matter gave birth to a passion that has no equal, which proceeded from something contrary to nature. Then there arises a disturbance in its whole body.
31) That is why I said to you, Be of good courage, and if you are discouraged be encouraged in the presence of the different forms of nature.
32) He who has ears to hear, let him hear.
33) When the Blessed One had said this, He greeted them all,saying, Peace be with you. Receive my peace unto yourselves.
34) Beware that no one lead you astray saying Lo here or lo there! For the Son of Man is within you.
35) Follow after Him!
36) Those who seek Him will find Him.
37) Go then and preach the gospel of the Kingdom.
38) Do not lay down any rules beyond what I appointed you, and do not give a law like the lawgiver lest you be constrained by it.
39) When He said this He departed.

Chapter 5
1) But they were grieved. They wept greatly, saying, How shall we go to the Gentiles and preach the gospel of the Kingdom of the Son of Man? If they did not spare Him, how will they spare us?
2) Then Mary stood up, greeted them all, and said to her brethren, Do not weep and do not grieve nor be irresolute, for His grace will be entirely with you and will protect you.
3) But rather, let us praise His greatness, for He has prepared us and made us into Men.
4) When Mary said this, she turned their hearts to the Good, and they began to discuss the words of the Savior.
5) Peter said to Mary, Sister we know that the Savior loved you more than the rest of woman.
6) Tell us the words of the Savior which you remember which you know, but we do not, nor have we heard them.
7) Mary answered and said, What is hidden from you I will proclaim to you.
8) And she began to speak to them these words: I, she said, I saw the Lord in a vision and I said to Him, Lord I saw you today in a vision. He answered and said to me,
9) Blessed are you that you did not waver at the sight of Me. For where the mind is there is the treasure.
10) I said to Him, Lord, how does he who sees the vision see it, through the soul or through the spirit?
11) The Savior answered and said, He does not see through the soul nor through the spirit, but the mind that is between the two that is what sees the vision and it is [...]

(pages 11 - 14 are missing from the manuscript)

Chapter 8:
. . . it.
10) And desire said, I did not see you descending, but now I see you ascending. Why do you lie since you belong to me?
11) The soul answered and said, I saw you. You did not see me nor recognize me. I served you as a garment and you did not know me.
12) When it said this, it (the soul) went away rejoicing greatly.
13) Again it came to the third power, which is called ignorance.
14) The power questioned the soul, saying, Where are you going? In wickedness are you bound. But you are bound; do not judge!
15) And the soul said, Why do you judge me, although I have not judged?
16) I was bound, though I have not bound.
17) I was not recognized. But I have recognized that the All is being dissolved, both the earthly things and the heavenly.
18) When the soul had overcome the third power, it went upwards and saw the fourth power, which took seven forms.
19) The first form is darkness, the second desire, the third ignorance, the fourth is the excitement of death, the fifth is the kingdom of the flesh, the sixth is the foolish wisdom of flesh, the seventh is the wrathful wisdom. These are the seven powers of wrath.
20) They asked the soul, Whence do you come slayer of men, or where are you going, conqueror of space?
21) The soul answered and said, What binds me has been slain, and what turns me about has been overcome,
22) and my desire has been ended, and ignorance has died.
23) In a aeon I was released from a world, and in a Type from a type, and from the fetter of oblivion which is transient.
24) From this time on will I attain to the rest of the time, of the season, of the aeon, in silence.

Chapter 9
1) When Mary had said this, she fell silent, since it was to this point that the Savior had spoken with her.
2) But Andrew answered and said to the brethren, Say what you wish to say about what she has said. I at least do not believe that the Savior said this. For certainly these teachings are strange ideas.
3) Peter answered and spoke concerning these same things.
4) He questioned them about the Savior: Did He really speak privately with a woman and not openly to us? Are we to turn about and all listen to her? Did He prefer her to us?
5) Then Mary wept and said to Peter, My brother Peter, what do you think? Do you think that I have thought this up myself in my heart, or that I am lying about the Savior?
6) Levi answered and said to Peter, Peter you have always been hot tempered.
7) Now I see you contending against the woman like the adversaries.
8) But if the Savior made her worthy, who are you indeed to reject her? Surely the Savior knows her very well.
9) That is why He loved her more than us. Rather let us be ashamed and put on the perfect Man, and separate as He commanded us and preach the gospel, not laying down any other rule or other law beyond what the Savior said.
10) And when they heard this they began to go forth to proclaim and to preach.


The Gospel According to Mary

 

David F.: So, the gospel of MM says that Paul was an evil liar?
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M*W: No, that is what I have said. However, Hyam Maccoby wrote The Mythmaker: Paul and the Invention of Christianity. Excellent resource.
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David F.: Can you give us a quote?
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M*W: When I have more time and can look for the citation. I'll post a reply to you.
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David F.: We know he certainly was not a nice man before Damascus, but was he still afterwards? Is it possible he changed?
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M*W: Yes, it not only is possible that Paul changed, it was quite likely. Paul changed everytime he needed to change. Even his name Sh'aul means deceiver. Paul was a tentmaker one day and a Pharisee the next. Then, depending on who he was talking to, selling his story of the dying demigod savior Jesus, he claimed to be a rabbi, a Sadducee, a Roman citizen, etc. He was like a chameleon.
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David F.: Where can we find info about the gospel of MM and any insight into why we should believe it?
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M*W: There are several translations that you could find at Amazon.com or Barnes & Noble.com. I believe that anything MM wrote must be truthful, after all, she knew Jesus and walked with him on Earth. Paul didn't. Peter didn't trust MM, and he insulted her when she taught about Jesus.
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David F.: It seems like Paul was quite a superman/evil-genius to have so duped the entire Christian world and all the apostles to the point where he was overridingly influential in all the early Christian writings, including those of all the original Apostles. I thought you said all the gospels were written after 100AD (which I don't believe, but let's go with that for a moment), yet Paul would have to be dead by then.
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M*W: I inadvertently erased your last sentence, and I apologize. Paul's epistles were written before the gospels, around 40-60AD. The Gospel of Mark was written about 70AD, Matthew 80-85AD, Luke 85-95AD, and John (long after Paul and Peter were dead) 95-100AD. Remember, people were being killed for not believing the gospels, so naturally, everybody claimed to be a christian!

I searched for a couple of websites that you may be interested in:

http://www.beloveddisciple.org/

http://www.thestarhouse.org/MMWho.html

 

David F.: just went to the Gospel of Mary Magdalene and I don't find the name Paul (or Saul) anywhere in the document? The document is rather short so I thought I would post it:
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M*W: No, Paul is not mentioned in The Gospel of Mary Magdalene. I feel, however, that Peter may have relayed information about MM to Paul, and he wrote about her 7 demons, etc. I'm not sure MM ever knew Paul. I know Jesus didn't know him.

 

M*W - you say Jesus didn't know him (Paul). Do you say Jesus doesn't know me either?

peace

c20

 

of course it does'nt not in reality, it only exist in that fantasy world,you call your mind.
he is non-existent to all but you, I can bet in you did an idenikit picture, your jesus would only look simular to say lori 7 jesus, but not exactly like it, and you both say you know your jesuses personally.( oh and yes we have all seen paintings of this jesus thing so we all have a basic idea) but when you know someone personally, you notice the little things.( now you'll say it appears different to all who have the holyspirit in them.)
thats a cop out.

 

c20H25N3o: M*W - you say Jesus didn't know him (Paul). Do you say Jesus doesn't know me either?
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M*W: That would be a big fat NO!

 

But He loves you yes?

 

c20H25N3o: But He loves you yes?
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M*W: No, no, a thousand times NO!