I received this as an email earlier today and it got me thinking: Okay, this is a bit of a spinoff from a few other threads. If you are not American, (and please answer honestly) does our patriotism offend you? And since no country is perfect, Are you proud of your country despite the bad things it has done in the past? If you are American, are you proud to be so? I am completely patriotic, I love my country to death, and I also know certain things we do is not right. I dont agree with some of our policies, but wouldnt we be viewed as traitors by other countries - if we didnt stick up for our country and were not proud of it? Just curious.... Take care and groove on! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Oh, and Im not sure if this thread belongs here! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr....... *Audience runs away before Xev can start rambling about history* I'm American, I would easily die to protect my country. Born here, raised here, would not leave my country for the world.....I am also a believer in the founding principle - our Constitution, which decrees the separation of church and state. Our Constitution is what has made America great. Besides, our founders were not all Christians - Jefferson, Adams, Washington, Paine, Greene and Franklin were deists. Lincoln was an athiest, or close to it. Finally, the founders didn't come up with that: My bold - from a far - right site: http://www.aclj.org/stories/historyof_us_motto.asp Additionally: http://www.ustreas.gov/opc/opc0011.html (Oh yeah, and I'm an athiest, and the assumption that America is a 'nation of God' annoys the hell out of me Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! ) Now, I like multicultralism. I can go downtown and choose between restarants: Ethiopian, Japanese, Middle Eastern, Chinese, Korean, Kosher, American and Italian. I like that. I frankly don't get the women who wander about veiled but hey, whatever floats their boat. I like a bit of variety. By all means, change our culture. Change is good. I know how hard it is to learn a second language, and I've enough sympathy for those who can't pronounce English perfectly. Worse that could happen is that I have to ask them to repeat themselves. I'll deal. We're immigrants. Even the Natives who came here 7,000 -10,000 years ago were immigrants. I for one am damned proud of that! That said, we have a certain nucleus. Our flag, our institutions. Our history - the good and bad. If you don't like them, move the fuck away. P.S: Remember how all those morons were screaming about how Arab-Americans were going to be persecuted in the wake of 9/11? Internment camps, etc? Hasn't happened, has it?
Thanks Xev! You brought up a couple of interesting views that I havent thought of myself. Take care Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
GAH! First of all, let me say that I love the principles that the country was founded on: 1: healthy distrust of a strong federal government 2: The fundamental belief that all people are created equal. 3: That we have, as human beings, certain rights which are not bequeathed to us by the State, but which are inherent simply by birthright as a human being. The thing that I think bugs other countries is the attitude we have that "we don't need you so play the game our way or shut the fuck up". Frankly, I think that the government of the country is going to hell in a handbasket. Uhm, when this country was started, we spoke German, and French, and Russian and spanish and English. We have always been a melting pot of culture. The only people who bug me are the ones who expect us to accept their culture without being accepting of ours or others. No!! That's the point! We have the OBLIGATION to dissent with our government if it does something that we don't agree with. Remember, the constitution says that the government exists for the people and if that government does not enact the will of the people they have the obligation to dissolve it and start over once again.
I'll answer the questions in a tic, just gonna look over some other stuff briefly. "However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the "politically correct" crowd began complaining about the possibility that our patriotism was offending others." Fuck them. I'm generally very conscience (in person, that is) of not offending another person, but only if I think it's within reason. If your pride offends them, then they are far too weak a human being to survive in the modern world. "This idea of America being a multicultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity." This sounds like it's boarding on extreme right-wing politics. "We speak ENGLISH, not Spanish, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language." "Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, learn the language!" Incorrect. People can speak whatever they wish to speak. You don't have to try and respond though. Freedom of Speech. "If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture." I agree people take this too far, but the idea is to keep young atheistic, jewish, muslim... children from having to see Christ as the only acceptable truth in society. "If you are not American, (and please answer honestly) does our patriotism offend you?" Ignorant and arrogant patriotism, yes. Just plain pride in your nation, no. As long as someone has educated opinions I'm okey-dokey with them. I may find them wrong on points, but that in no way offends me. Hell, ignorant and arrogant patriotism doesn't really offend me, so much as make me find the person really dumb (and, well, ignorant and arrogant) and I loose a lot of respect for them. "And since no country is perfect, Are you proud of your country despite the bad things it has done in the past?" Canada hasn't done a heck of a lot of important things, but obviously has done some bad things. Still, yes, I'm very proud of my country. I'm proud because of the great things it's brought into this world......basketball, large peace keeping efforts, insulin, and of course topping the list, hockey. "I'm American, I would easily die to protect my country. Born here, raised here, would not leave my country for the world." I would die for America. I would die for Canada. If WWIII comes and there's a chance of the American side loosing (even the slightest chance), I'm pickin' up a gun, joining the front line and dieing. But not before killing a few people. "Our Constitution is what has made America great." Wrongo. The people were what made America great. "That said, we have a certain nucleus. Our flag, our institutions. Our history - the good and bad. If you don't like them, move the fuck away." Exactly, don't expect a nation to change for you. "Remember how all those morons were screaming about how Arab-Americans were going to be persecuted in the wake of 9/11? Internment camps, etc?" Well, there was some stuff. There were temples and such burned for a month or so. It happened in a city here too. And no, you don't have to stay proud to your country or face being a traitor. If your nation sold arms to a racist, Nazi regime, would you still be proud of the government in power? If you say yes, then I think you're letting emotion win over logic too much.
I'm a patriot alsoPlease Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Avatar: Ummm hmm. Nicer than America's, which is too long. Say, is there some unwritten rule that national anthems should be boring? Tyler: Don't think so. Americans suck. Look at McCarthyism. Rio: Word! I don't see why patriotism should be offensive. It's rather fun, in fact, to bicker over 'whose country is better'. *Points at her 'location'*
duno really. Ours has a beautiful melody. I have never understood how you could sing your anthem. The words in smplaces are so hard to sing through. Of course it is fun. BTW, you all know tht my location is the best, don't you?Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
It's a national secret - we have the first four lines memorized Oh say can you see By the dawn's early light What so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming? *Then we forget, and mutter somthing like: Broad stripes and bright stars, da da da da da da...* Then we remember the: And the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air, Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there. O say, does that star-spangled banner yet wave O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave? And mutter along with the tune. No, mine is. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Our anthem sucks Should be "we are one" But Our country is better than yours, so nehPlease Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
"Don't think so. Americans suck. Look at McCarthyism." But America is still great? Seems like something of a contradiction. Like you've said; guns don't kill people, people kill people. Pieces of paper don't make a nation great, people make a nation great. CANADA!!!!!!! GOLD MEDAL!!!!!!! Hey Xev, I can sing the whole American anthem........ Know why?............ because they do it before every hockey game, hehe Oh yeah, and Canada is the best.....
I would expect very person to believe in their own country. If not, then what are you doing there? I like the USA. I have no problem with others believing in their own countries. It is called both patriotism and loyality. I start running into a problem when I see others who like their own countries but seem to live to run down others. I could name a few that do that on a regular basis here at sciforums but that would not help anything. It seems to be a catch all for whatever problems they preceive is wrong with "their" world. It seems that they would bemoan the idea that all that is wrong with the world is the cause of the US. I would put forth the idea if the roles were switched then everything would be fine within their scope of the world. A bit of sour grapes is what it sounds like. No one country controls the world. Not the US, not Russia, nor any other country. Affect the world, yes. Each does, and not just the ones listed. Even the third world countries do. Somehow that seems to be forgotten about in the posters' mind though. Is that what you would call patriotic? I think that is where a lot of the wars originate from. So what is wrong with this mentaility, I ask you? If you wrap this thought mode up and add a dash of religion, bingo, you can account for a large percentage of the wars that have occurred in history. So are we waiting for those who run down others to find religion? It seems that is all that is needed to add to the mix now. But wait, that is already happening in the world today. They call them "the terrorists". What I have a hard time believing is that there are some who are crying for the country that gave those terrorists shelter. Go figure...
I believe globalization is inevitable. National sovereignty someday will be a thing of the past. I already accepted the fact that someday our world will have no boundaries.
The only time I ever feel the slightest wish to show the flag is when I'm in the proximity of Canadian tourists in Europe. They're so frightened to be mistaken for, or accosted as a Yankee, that they plaster little Canadian flags on their backpacks. Of course when they hear my American accent in some remote corner of Poland they act as though we're long-lost brothers. Well, we are brothers, but still it makes me quite ill. If someone wanting to pick a fight with a Canadian should mistake me for a Canadian, I'd take him on myself before I'd ever whine, "But I'm not Canadian!" Before the Canadian Defense League puts a bead on me, let me add that I love Canada. Yes, really. If I stand up and look out my window I can see across the border. I spend as much time as I can spare with my friends up in Montreal. And I only wish the United States government could be more like Canada and less like Israel. As far as I can tell, individual people in Canada are every bit as kind and hospitable as are the people here at home. Yes, I detect a few minor cultural differences, but for the most part they are the same. And as I've mentioned before in this forum, I think our founders screwed up by making the border across latitudianal rather than longitudinal lines. New England has far more in common with New Brunswick than it has with Montana. Mostly, I don't much care about the lines politicians draw on maps. I care instead about the people and the land. Twice a week in a patisserie down in Montpelier, I buy coffee from a nice Bosnian woman. I'm proud that our community has welcomed her with such warmth. This is an example of what makes me proud to be a North American. I suppose my definition of patriotism also includes picking up trash heaved out the windows of passing SUVs and pick-ups; cars most likely bearing those little plastic American flags. It has to do with perpetually holding your nose to vote for a candidate that represents the lesser of evils, when I realize it's only an exercise in futility. And finally, it has to do with stopping to help dig a car out of a snowbank whether they are a neighbor or a tourist from New Jersey or Ontario. There must be a thousand ways to show one's patriotism, despite the fact that I've never owned a flag and would only sing "God bless America" with a gun pointed at my head. Michael
DO NOT forget the armed forces. I serve the US Air Force proudly in Europe, and when something happens, we are the first in. Be glad for the armed forces(of all our nations) that allow us to be here discussing this. Perhaps someday we will grow beyond needing armies, its something to work for. Perhaps a new frontier for us to group togather against will settle it a little. God bless America, and the rest of the world
Our national anthem is the pits. I would defy any fucker to know the second verse I bet even her heiney the queen doesn't know it all thru. Mind you if she did sing it she'd have to do the... "God save our gracious me!" thing. It is a dull boring anthem for a dull boring country populated in the main by dull boring people. Otherwise I wouldn't be talking to you lot Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! The scenery is beautiful tho' and we have been resplendant in world domination at least once. Funny thing is I'd never leave. All those dull boring people means it's real easy to get by!
I do not forget the armed forces that buys our freedom to say we love or hate our country. I did my time in Europe, Gifted. I am happy to pass the baton to you. I will turn a door knob for you.
Gifted, I don't think many Americans are without appreciation of our military. I'm also pleased to hear of your pride to serve. Wet1 did his time, and I did mine in the Coast Guard. I agree with you, the world would be a better place if we didn't need Army. As long as we are dreaming; if I were the King of America, I'd remodel our military along the lines of Switzerland's. Every citizen up to the age of retirement would have a uniform in the closet, much like our current Reserves. I'd close all our foreign bases and paint big red Coast Guard slashes across the bows of all the ships in our present Navy. It would be a defensive force from start to finish. Of course our foreign policy would have to change from that of our traditional gun-boat politics. I'd remodel our foreign policy similar to the Scandinavian countries; based on mutual cooperation and compromise. Yes I know, it would make more work for our diplomats, but hopefully, less for our military. Michael
Avatar: nice to know somebody close from my homeland.. I am Lithuanian currently living in Leicester (England). I have to admit I came to this country because of money and opportunities.. and something else - military service in Lithuania. I hope that might outline my point of view towards patriotism Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! . I don't understand the people who would die for their "country" - What did the Americans die for in Vietnam war? - What exactly do they die for??? I think, the answer in most cases would be not the country, but the government. wet1: army protects your freedom?? Freedom from what? Most civilized countries adopted Democratic system. Why is this special american freedom different from any other democratic freedom? What is the love for your country based on? What is it that you are so proud about your country (US)? Do you love your hometown, your state? Do you love your continent as well (North American), do you love Earth, do you love Sol system, or the milky way... etc etc.. I doubt that patriotism is in any way different from nationalism. I can say I like England - the acceptance of a foreigner isn't as bad as I expected for such a historical country. Maybe I am just lucky to be in Leicester - the Asian community here is one of the biggest here (I think around 30-40%). Xev: you wouldn't leave your country for anything? What if your country was so poor you would struggle to survive? I don't regret a single moment for leaving LT, which is full patriotic idiots. They would reject anything in this world just to save their great old culture and language. I do miss the natural beauty of my country (which is the same as the beauty of all surrounding area as well Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! ) and the space we have there.. The way it looks to me is that patriotism is just one of those old stylish things that parents instructed children to respect because their parents instructed them to (similar to religion).. One can hope it will go away with time... Respect... NDRS
