Patriotism is wrong

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by spuriousmonkey, Jan 12, 2006.

  1. Zephyr Humans are ONE Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,371
    I don't think patriotism is fundamentally different from self-identifying with any particular group, e.g. forums and religions. While I don't think self-identifying is necessarily bad, it does create a mental boundary between 'us' and 'them' and a feeling of 'us good' that can blur into 'them not good'...
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. Hapsburg Hellenistic polytheist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,179
    So? That can help hype up that good ol' competitive spirit. Think of it this way: in your high school football game, if the players and fans didn't think along the lines of "us" and "them", then thrashing your rival team would be sorta a hollow vict'ry.

    Because there has not been a threat to unite all of mankind. We have no real reason for human patiotism. We're gettin' closer on building that road, though. If only the UN were more effective...
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2006
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. Zephyr Humans are ONE Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,371
    Sure, but if someone actually starts hating the opposing team to the point that they'll vandalise the flyback's car ... then it's going too far

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. Clockwood You Forgot Poland Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,467
    Would you exchange 1000 squabbling powers for one great tyrant?
    In rare instances such as one on this scale, disunity can be good... or at least the lesser of two evils.
     
  8. Roman Banned Banned

    Messages:
    11,560
    Our Western concept of nationalism is a product of 19th century industrialism.

    If nationalism was a part of human nature, why was it absent from human nature for millenia? Nationalism is an extenion of tribalism. It's taught. We're told that those that live within the imaginary boundaries of our country, who share the same language and have the same leaders, are our family. Nationalism is misplaced familial cohesion. We're misled, not by emotion, but out emotion is misled through reason.

    "These people share these characteristics in common with you, therefore you are like these people, therefore when they are hurt you are hurt. Protect them as you would protect yourself."
     
  9. john smith Tongue in cheek Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    829
    I would like to be patriotic, i really would like to feel 100% proud of my country, i want to be able to say my countrys action represnt my ideology and beliefs, however i cannot.

    I would like to be patriotic but it is impossible for me to actually feel it because of how my 'homeland' has acted.

    Unfortunatly true patriotism,in this day and age, does not exist.

    :m:
     
  10. Roman Banned Banned

    Messages:
    11,560
    true patriotism

    Maybe someday it'll return. Got my fingers crossed.
     
  11. Anomalous Banned Banned

    Messages:
    1,710
    Not even ending terrorism or is it not a big threat ?
     
  12. Anomalous Banned Banned

    Messages:
    1,710
    So Patriotism is actually National greed, no wonder American war attacks are justified.
     
  13. Hapsburg Hellenistic polytheist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,179
    That's not patriotism. That's racism. Different concepts, usually.

    Not as big as you might think.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2006
  14. Roman Banned Banned

    Messages:
    11,560
    Not at all. Patriotism and racism can go hand in hand, and often do. Imagine all the civilians that butchered other civilians in the Holocaust. For love of country. What a fervor for the Fuhrer. For the Reich.
     
  15. spuriousmonkey Banned Banned

    Messages:
    24,066
    Maybe the reality is that it is a hollow victory.
     
  16. Oxygen One Hissy Kitty Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,478
    John Smith
    You may not be proud of what your homeland is doing, but why does that stop you from being patriotic? I'm not proud of a lot of what my country is doing right now, but that doesn't make me less of a patriot. I fix my patriotism to the principles on which my country was founded, not to the whims of elected officials. When I feel something is going against those ideals, I do what I can to help correct it, whether by voting against an offending candidate or issue or, in one case, telling the governor of the state of Arizona to "shut the hell up" at a public gathering.

    One could even argue the case of Benedict Arnold as one of patriotism in the extreme. According to his "Open Letter to the Inhabitants of North America", he saw the United States as trading the British crown for the French crown. We owed France a lot of money and our armed forces were being so badly depleted that France could have waltzed on in and mopped us up, and she had plenty of reason (mostly just to spite England). Arnold saw the chance of reconciliation with the Mother Country (after all, we were English) as a very real possibility while the French were more "foreign".* Rather than see America fall under a foreign crown, he felt America's best bet was to return to the King and try for independence later under less violent conditions.

    Okay, so it didn't happen like he thought it was going to. The fact is, according to his letter, he acted in what he felt were the best interests of his country even though he was opposed to the current administration's course of action. He threw it all away to try to keep America from what he perceived as a worse situation. Sounds patriotic to me.

    *I read that the state of Louisiana has a body of laws that don't quite jive with the other 49 states. While still constitutional, they are "quirky". Unfortunately, the author didn't give any examples, but did give an explanation that Louisiana's law is based off of French common law while the other 49 states' laws are based off of English common law. How different might we be if Arnold's fear had come true?
     
  17. Hapsburg Hellenistic polytheist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,179
    Oh, yeah, patriotism and racism merge in one incident, and suddenly ALL patriotic feeling is racist...

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  18. spuriousmonkey Banned Banned

    Messages:
    24,066
    he said: racism and patriotism can go hand in hand and often do.
     
  19. Hapsburg Hellenistic polytheist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,179
    Yeah, and I'm saying it doesn't.
     
  20. spuriousmonkey Banned Banned

    Messages:
    24,066
    Obviously it has. So why shouldn't it do.
     
  21. Oxygen One Hissy Kitty Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,478
    I think spurious is referring to incidents where a particular race or nationality suddenly finds itself persecuted socially, such as right after 9-11 when people of Middle Eastern descent were justifiably afraid to leave their homes because of misdirected patriotism. "Let's go kill some helpless old man from India. That'll make us heroes and get us laid!" Even at my husband's place of work they were wondering if they were going to be sent home as a security measure and if they would get escorted by security out to their cars (let alone if they would survive the trip home).

    A less volatile form of misdirected patriotism showing up in this form was that ridiculous trend of replacing anything with "french" in it with "freedom". I had ordered some french fries at a Carl's Jr. and the girl asked "Don't you mean Freedom Fries?" I answered, "No, I mean French Fries. We haven't all lost our minds yet." During WW1 Dachshunds were called "Liberty Pups", sauerkraut was called "Liberty Cabbage", and this sort of nonsense wasn't limited the US. England, Germany, pretty much every nation has done it and continues to do it.
     
  22. Anomalous Banned Banned

    Messages:
    1,710
    NAZI's were patriots after all.
     
  23. Zephyr Humans are ONE Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,371
    And worse than that. The Animals Came in One By One is an autobiographical book by animal-vet Buster Lloyd-Jones set in London during WWII. In one chapter he describes how British propoganda portrayed "the Huns" as scheming, ratty sausage-dogs and the British as noble bulldogs. As a result he was approached by Daschund owners to have their pets put to sleep as they no longer wanted them.

    Is that patriotism?
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2006

Share This Page