Paris

Discussion in 'Earth Science' started by sculptor, May 31, 2017.

  1. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    President Trump was poised Wednesday to withdraw the United States from the Paris climate agreement, two officials with knowledge of the decision said, making good on a campaign pledge but severely weakening the landmark 2015 climate change accord that committed nearly every nation to take action to curb the warming of the planet.

    But White House officials cautioned that the decision is not yet final.

    Faced with advisers who pressed hard on both sides of the Paris question, Mr. Trump appears to have decided that a continued United States presence in the accord would harm the economy; hinder job creation in regions like Appalachia and the West, where his most ardent supporters live; and undermine his “America First” message. But advisers pressing him to remain in the accord were still pressing up to the final announcement.

    and, from the atlantic
    The Paris Agreement on climate change works by a delicate bit of magic.

    The treaty aims to reduce the world’s greenhouse-gas emissions, but it legally requires no one to actually stop emitting greenhouse gases. Instead, it advances a set of loose and voluntary norms for getting to the final goal. In 2015, every country announced a (nonbinding) plan in which they promised to (eventually) slow down pumping carbon dioxide and methane into the atmosphere. In 2018, and every five years afterward, all the countries will get together again and announce new promises.

    This looseness was intentional. The accord’s architects hoped to nudge everyone into bringing down their emissions together—but they didn’t (and couldn’t) forceany one nation to do it. More pointedly, they also could not compel a Republican-controlled U.S. Senate to ratify any binding international climate treaty. So Paris trades in signals, not sacrifice; unanimous resolutions, not top-down restrictions. John Kerry said during negotiations that it sends “literally a critical message to the global marketplace.” In truth, this is pretty much the only thing it does.
     
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  3. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    So you don't think sending messages is a productive endeavor? The Paris Climate Accord is the first of many steps. If Trump withdraws, it will further demonstrate either his stupidity or the absence of a moral backbone or perhaps both.
     
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  5. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    This "Atlantic" passage, unless it is taken out of context, seems to betray a very specially American Republican view of things, sneering at international cooperation and assuming that coercion is the only way to get anything done. In fact though, many countries other than the USA are working hard on this issue. Germany and the Nordics are well known for the huge strides they have made, the UK now generates 25% of its electricity from renewables and India and China are also working hard on it, not least due to the air pollution in their cities which provides a secondary rationale, not to mention the business in photo-voltaics. China in fact sees an opportunity to displace the USA from global leadership through things such as this.

    For the USA to turn its back on the world on this issue is not going to stop the show: it will just be one of several fronts on which the USA will lose global credibility and become just another country.

    Get rid of Trump before it is too late!

    P.S. And California will be up with the leaders as usual, regardless of what the fat slobs in the Mid-West, and that moron in the White House, think.
     
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  7. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    .

    Maybe, that's a good thing?
     
  8. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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  9. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    It may be, if whoever succeeds Trump has the same stance. But the larger point is that the Paris deal is worth something as a symbol of collective effort and the results of this effort will continue to multiply, US intransigence notwithstanding. And in fact the US will eventually get there, as with so many environmental issues led by California, in the teeth of opposition from more backward states.
     
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  10. karenmansker HSIRI Banned

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    Yeah . . . . . .Right! . . . kind of like the UN? . . .the League of Nations? . . . and other 'cooperative' holier-than-thou global efforts that have not done so well . . . due to nationalist intransigence
     
  11. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    And what makes you think the UN "hasn't done so well"? Given mankind has never before known a more peaceful, stable, and prosperous period of time, what makes you think the UN hasn't worked? Please do be specific.
     
  12. karenmansker HSIRI Banned

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    OH YES, I forgot NATO . . . . a multi-national intransigence . . . .

    UN? . . . . the Iran 'deal' . . . . ISIS? . . . . Rwanda? . . . . . Israel? . . . . . a few specifics . . . there are many others . . .

    (Edited for spelling)
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2017
  13. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Specifics...? When have you ever offered specifics? You haven't even answered the question posed to you.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2017
  14. karenmansker HSIRI Banned

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    I refer you to my post #8, Joe . . . . . SPECIFICS!!! . . . . . (Note: LMAO!) . . . .or, you could re-define 'specifics' to meet your own criterion
     
  15. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Post number 8 is mine Karen...oops.

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    You would do much better if you spent lest time laughing your ass off and a little time thinking.
     
  16. karenmansker HSIRI Banned

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    I stand corrected . . . . MY post #9 . . . . .

    Joe, I "LMAO" because it would appear (IMO) that you, yourself, seem to expend so . . . . "little time" thinking"!!
     
  17. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    And your evidence is where Karen? That's one of the problems with you. You never have evidence and you don't think. It's always a preprogrammed right wing response with you.

    Again, "And what makes you think the UN "hasn't done so well"? Given mankind has never before known a more peaceful, stable, and prosperous period of time, what makes you think the UN hasn't worked? Please do be specific?"

    The UN was never intended to be a panacea. It was never intended to be a magic wand, nor has it ever pretended to be a magic wand. It was never intended to prevent all conflicts. There's no magic here or anywhere. So if your are looking for magical solutions, they don't exist Karen. The unfortunate fact for you is the world has become a much more peaceful and prosperous place with the UN.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2017
  18. karenmansker HSIRI Banned

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    LMAO, Joe . . . . . BTW: You left-out "comrade"!!

    BTW#2: Joe, (IMO) you repeat yourself . . . . re: "Again, "And what makes you think the UN "hasn't done so well"? Given mankind has never before known a more peaceful, stable, and prosperous period of time, what makes you think the UN hasn't worked? Please do be specific?" . . . . See the specifics given to you previously (Post #9)!!
     
  19. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Aren't you smart Karen? I've asked you the same question twice and you have yet to answer it once. Oops. And I'll keep repeating that question as long as necessary Karen. Answer the question, or do I need to repeat it for a third time?

    I keep telling you, you would be better served if you spent less time laughing your ass off and a little time thinking.
     
  20. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Elon Musk announced today that if Trump withdraws from the Paris Accord, Musk will withdraw from Trump's advisory council. This is kind of funny in that industry, including the oil industry, is against a US withdrawal. At this rate, Trump will not have much of an advisory council. He has already lost advisory council members because of his policies.
     
  21. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    You just watch: the move to reduce carbon emissions will continue, regardless of whatever neanderthal posturing we see from the USA under The Chump. Getting heads of state on-side through such exercises is part of that drive.
     
  22. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    The Allies in WWII did pretty well with their "holier-than-thou" approach to ending fascism and genocide.
    The Montreal Protocol did pretty well with their "holier-than-thou" approach to fixing the ozone layer.
    The International Space Station did pretty well with their "holier-than-thou" approach to manned spaceflight.
     
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  23. karenmansker HSIRI Banned

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    I might disagree with you regarding the designation 'holier-than-thou' of some of those you listed . . . besides, never did I say ALL cooperative groups are so worthless. It would appear that you are including groups that I did not. Heck, even Chouteau Grotto is one such worthy group.
     

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