Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by Bells, Feb 26, 2007.
The kid is British, not American (but I can understand jumping to that conclusion).
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I think that's exactly the definition of "media whore", ain't it? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
And bringing a child into the world without the means to feed it, so that it dies of starvation, is NOT a form of child abuse?
Which is worse, Bells, 10,000 kids dying of starvation or one British kid who eats to much and is obese?
No, I try to put things into perspective. All the hoopla you raised about this one kid overeating, when 10,000 kids die every day in Africa, is a sure sign that you don't have a good perspective on reality. I was attempting to show you, and all the others, that when viewed in a more realistic perspective, the whole issue of the obese kid pales in comparison. Yet you don't' seem to get that even when I explain it to you. Why? How?
I don't care, that's your first mistake! But neither do I claim to care. You, however, and many like you, CLAIM to care, yet you post bullshit pieces like this one, ONE, little boy .....as if he's so much more important than those 10,000 kids starving in Africa. See? Perspective. You ain't got none!
So says he, the forum whore. I am currently nearing the end of a nasty arse pregnancy and am in a really really bad mood Baron. Any sense of politeness I may have had has gone flying out the window.
Yes well maybe if the religious nutters around the world stopped preventing contraceptive methods from reaching those poor and starving souls, it might help alleviate the situation. Also, if the West stopped trying to squeeze debt repayments out of poverty stricken countries, it might also help, don't you think?
I will reiterate something you seem to keep missing again and again Baron. Any child dying of preventable and treatable diseases and situations is a travesty. And for your information, more than 10,000 children die of starvation every day. However if we cannot save one child (such as this one in England) and if we cannot bring ourselves to care about saving one child, then helping those millions who are dying around the world of preventable and treatable diseases becomes an impossibility. Do you understand the whole concept Baron?
"Hoopla"? What "hoopla"? I posted an article I found for discussion. Maybe before you attempt to accuse others of being unable to keep things in perspective, you should also take your own advice.
What you cannot understand is one child dying like this child in England is bad. If we can't bring ourselves to care about that one child, then how can we honestly bring ourselves to care about those dying in Africa? Why is that so hard for YOU to understand Baron?
I mean I know you simply don't give a squat about shit, but that's just YOU. Others care. Now if it bothers you that others care, that's your problem. If others caring only brings to light your laziness and your uncaring attitude, then only you can rectify that.
And for someone who does not care as much as you do, you sure do spout a hell of a lot of crap about the issue.
Is this a bullshit piece? If so, why are you still participating in this thread? I mean are you that desperate for attention? If you don't care about this little boy or the millions dying of starvation and diseases that are easily treatable around the world, why in the hell do you harp on and on in threads dealing with such issues?
Oh wait that's right. You are only trying to tell us how much you don't care and trying to get others to be just like you. Does it make you uncomfortable that others care about what goes on around the world Baron? Does it make you feel like a selfish old man?
Bells, a lot of the flack that you are catching here is because a lot of people are sick of "authority" stepping in whenever it sees something that excuses it. There have been many stories of truly lame excuses for taking a child away, and it gets old and sick after a while. Your intentions may be good and your ethics may be good, but there are huge systemic problems with the child protective services. I know that I perceive you as someone who waves that fact away and doesn't deal with it.
And I understand exactly what you mean.
Child Protective Services fail on so many occasions and simply get it wrong on others that children are either taken away unnecessarily or left to die of either abuse or neglect. It is time things changed.
Had this child been left as he was and no one made a move to help him, and he died, the health department and child protective services would have copped so much flack for having failed yet again. However in this instance the mother had been given many chances. This has been going on for several months. She did not bother to turn up to any meetings or appointments with doctors and nutritionists who wanted to help her because she felt that their diet options were bad since her son did not like eating fruit and vegetables. That was her excuse. She has plainly said that she can't let him go without and will give him whatever he will eat, which unfortunately for this kid, is processed food and fried food. She did not want to inconvenience her child, even if her actions put him at risk of death. It is neglect that allowed this child to get to where he is now. And it is sad that it was allowed to continue for so long so that it has reached this point.
As of now, she can keep her son and has been ordered to work with nutritionists and health professionals to help find other alternatives for her son. And that is brilliant and hopefully she will stick to it.
I have seen how badly child protection services fail on so many instances. In Australia of late, there have been reports of their simply not having done their job to such an extent that children have died or suffered horrendous injuries. That needs to stop. Proper guidelines need to be put in place and they basically need to get their heads out of their backsides and do their job. We can't get sick and tired of it because once we do, once we stop being outraged at their failures, more children are left to be abused, to die of said abuse or neglect in their homes. And that is inexcusable.
Sometimes the authorities have to step in and I think in this instance, it was warranted. The mother brought the media into her own home to highlight her and her son's plight. When the help arrived, she cannot then say well 'no.. he doesn't like fruit and vegetables so forget it'.. and then keep on complaining that she is not getting help. Parents have to be responsible for their actions in how they raise their children. We have a duty towards our children and if we fail, then we cannot simply expect society and the law to do nothing because they are our children and people should just "mind their own business". If you neglect an animal, you break the law. The same should also apply to one's children.
That's just my opinion.
Well, if you want people to trust authority, authority is going to have to exercise the diligence that it takes to make itself worthy of trust.
Did anyone else notice that this kid is also growing quite a bit taller and has a really large bone structure for his age? He is obese but he is also going through an abnormal growth spurt. I just saw him on TV and he is quite tall for an 8 year old and his weight looks a bit much, but not nearly as debilitating as you might think because he is tall and has a broad build.
I hope that his mother gets her story told the way that she wants it told. I understand very well how she could be sick of being messed with. Anyone who deals with them knows that all of those so-called experts can easily be quacks, idiots, and even just plain malicious, so a reasonable person can have perfectly good reasons not to give it over to them.
Others care???? Bells, if "others" actually cared as much as you and they claim to care, we wouldn't have all of the starvation and dying.
No, Bells, people don't care, they just SAY that they care! ...while tens of thousands starve every-fuckin'-day!
No, Bells, it bothers me that they CLAIM to care ....yet they don't do shit to help the problems. Just making the claim of compassion and caring ain't enough ....they make that claim, yet the starving goes on and on.
And then, worse, they pick up some sensationalist news spot like this one boy in Britian and make a big issue of it ................while tens of thousands die of starvation all over the world!
I can understand her feelings, she should be cutting down the total ammount of food he eats, if she does that first at least he won't gain anymore, and should lose weight, even if he is still unhealthy(weight and health sometimes being uncorrelated).
I'm a lot more interested in the truth about the help she receives or doesn't, I'm fully aware sometimes the NHS is quite frankly useless.
I agree it's the best idea, rewards and mixing sadly doesn't always work however, and he could end up going hungry, exactly a situation that's trying to be avoided. I remember my mum mixing cabbage with my mash, which sadly only resulted in me leaving both when I'd normally eat the mash! Needless to say she stopped doing it.
Kids can easily go off the rails too, it may start with something small (how many kids steal sweets from shops when parents refuse to buy them?), obviously this kid is far too fat to be able to run off with a chocolate bar but I'm convinced he'd at least try it. The other problem is if there is no food in the house he eats, he will go hungry, there is a misconception that if people get hungry enough they'll eat anything, in a situation where no other food is available that is true(desert island), but this isn't the case, he could leave home, get food from friends, steal from shops, short of locking him indoors (which again wouldn't help his health) it's simply available to him elsewhere. Also there is a risk to his health of this kind of enforced crash dieting, such as collapsing and it in itself being unhealthy etc.
You're definately along the right lines with your ideas and something must be done, but too harsh and things will still go wrong.
Obviously this has taken months(and will take that long to solve), but according to them they've seeked help and found little success with what has been given, so I'm mostly interested in the truth of those statements by the parents.
Agreed, if he likes the food he should like it prepared differently, and he might not like peas or carrots or whatever but I'm sure there are some vedge he likes! Only thing would be if they are tropical/expensive and maybe then they should receive help to get them. Excercise shouldn't be a problem, although in fairness he should join a sports club so it's fun otherwise he won't stick to it and presuming they live in a large town that shouldn't be a problem. As I said, maybe it did start earlier but hasn't been helped enough? Perhaps the parents really are just stupid?
Agreed, and they probably are just ignorant, but good parenting comes with experience, wisdom, and help, not all have those and it's hard to tell how many they were lacking in.
Agreed, although not all people learn, I'm not aware if you live in Britain or not but there's been a series of programmes about adults who eat only chips or only cheese etc. Takes being picky to a whole new level.
I agree, there is a multitude of variety in the foods we can eat. However tastes change, we all have different likes and dislikes and only the principle of healthy eating can be molded, it's then sadly up to the individual to ignore it.Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Thats not a nice way to describe them.
I look at it this way... Eventually people are going to make their own decisions about food anyhow (well, hopefully). When a kid turns 18, he may choose to gorge himself full with McDonalds - regardless if he was raised by some wack job mormon who forced him to eat only vegtables the first 18 years of his life. The only real difference in this situation is how much the person weighs when they turn 18... If they are already obese, they are off to a bad start. If not, well then it's their choice to stuff themselves with fat (assuming they go that route)
I guess the real question where is whether the kid is requesting a cereal bowl full of lard for breakfast each morning, and the parent is complying. Or the parent is just giving him junk on her own accord - in that case it's a really really bad decision.
In many homes parents watch as their daughters starve themselves to be thin, do we condemn those families and urge the state to intervene there? (Or is dietary neglect only bad when the result isn't as attractive as thin young women?)
If the kid is fat and miserable, then I could see intervening. If he's fat and happy then I can't really care. His life expectancy is between him and his parents, not a matter of national concern.
of course parents are responsible. the health of a child is one of the most basic requirements that a parent is responsible for.
i've seen this form of neglect/abuse manifest for a few different reasons. one is to appease a child. this could be caused by a reluctance to discipline effectively...just give the kid whatever it takes to shut them up and make them happy, or using food as a reward for certain desired behaviors. in some cases it also seems to stem from some parental guilt and the parent just inundates the child with material things or food in an attempt to make up for something else.
then there's the case where the parents are just passing on their own self-abuse...their own eating behaviors to their child because it's easier than correcting their own disorders. and no, i don't think there are many people out there that are just plain ignorant about nutrition, and if they are, it is by choice, as there is an absolute wealth of information about it available.
a couple of years ago, i took classes to become a foster parent, and one of the couples that was in my class were obese, and extremely unhealthy. i was made aware of their health problems because the husband in particular LOVED to talk about his. when asked on breaks during casual conversation how he was, his response was always, "my diabetes...my cyatica...my blood pressure". he was disgusting. and what made it even more disgusting, to the point of horrific, was that he was constantly eating during class. they would come to class with fast food, candy bars, chips, and drinking diet soda of course. they made me want to vomit. and what's worse, is that i knew that any child placed in their custody would be subject to the same eating habits and dietary intake. i think the child would have been safer being handed over to a drug addict. at least most drug abusers don't feed their kids their alcohol and crack.
You performed thread necromancy just to start a troll war with Max??? You have waaaay too much time on your hands!
what does a child know about life expectancy?
Oh, Bells, you really think they should give care? Let's look at the bullshit these same people allow:
These are about a boarding school run by someone named Mathew Israel in the state of Massachusetts. This is a boarding school for children with some types of mental or emotional disabilities such as ADD Attention Deficit Disorder or Autism or children with PTSD Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.
Here in this boarding school, children are punished with electric shocks for the slightest indiscretion. They are even given electric shocks for merely sneezing in class and asking for a tissue.
Yeah! Excellent therapy for Post Traumatic Stress Disorder!!! Electric shocks!!!
The children are not allowed to socialize or even talk to each other or talk to any of the staff members. They are punished by being forced to drink vinegar with hot Tabasco Sauce. These kids are fed mashed potatoes with dried liver powder.
If the kids misbehave they are given electric shocks, and if they retreat from the misbehavior they are still given electric shocks. So, it makes no difference if the kid misbehaves or promises to behave, they are still given electric shocks for both obedience and disobedience.
Another words, if you disobey, your are punished with electric shocks.
And if you obey, you are rewarded with electric shocks!!!
I call it, Damned If You Do And Dammed If You Don't Aversion Therapy!
There is also sleep deprivation and sometimes food is with-held.
So, here in the good ol' USA, innocent children are being tortured.
Even in our regular elementary and high schools, students with disabilities are more severely punished than the more able-bodied students, and even if they're smart but fat they are worried about.
There was an ENTIRE video made by a student who went there who wanted every worker in that boarding school all killed and their families, GOOD OL' USA IS NOT FREE, IT'S A MACHO ENSLAVEMENT NAZI CAMP!
YEAH, I WOULDN'T LET THESE BASTARDS LAY A HAND ON ANY HUMAN BEING!
Want to see what your heartless bastard "authorities" are doing: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-newborn-girl-taken-care-obesity-fears.html#
So I say, NO! HE CAN BE OBESE AS MUCH AS HE WANTS!
AND MORE FAT PEOPLE ABUSE: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/wor...eople-campaign-make-Britain-fat-friendly.html
Yeah, you are defending hypocrites. As Baron said, MIND YOUR OWN FUCKIN' BUSINESS!
If parents are hurting the kids health enough, and hurting his self-esteem enough, they obviously should be stopped. Extreme obesity fits the category nicely, so the kid should be put on a law-enforced diet and the parents punished somehow.
As far as Barons points, I think it is wise to consider the dichotomy between real and ideal.
I can get involved quite easily and write letters to stop the kid from getting fatter. My aid in Africa would be different. I could work my whole life-time and not make a difference. One obese kid is easier work than thousands of starving kids.
so if you keep promoting Africa-first, my advice to provide us with a practical and tangible plan on going about it.
Are the parents fat, too?
Looks like that 8 year old has already a deformed bone structure due to the extreme overweight. The kid needs immediate help.
As to having issues with consuming fruits and vegetables, it's possible. But I'd claim that he isn't physically allergic to it, but more like psychologically allergic to it, and the psyche can affect the body in such an extent that it can show symptoms of intolerance towards a certain..substance.
I can imagine that the whole family is having the same diet as this boy. I also bet that the boy gets regularly bullied, and feels excluded which then leads to depression which in turn makes him feast even more, and the parents aren't changing the diet, nor particularly paying attention to his existence. A diabolic cycle...
But really, the parents need to be confronted with the fact that they are killing their own son, not right away, but slowly and surely. Obviously they don't understand the issue at hand otherwise they wouldn't have missed ALL of the "appointments with community and paediatric nutritionists, public health experts, school nurses and social workers". They don't seem to really care about their son...and in this case, why do they want to keep a child when they don't want to take up responsibility for it?
PS: I'm just speculating.
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