Parallel Universes and Physical Constants

Discussion in 'Physics & Math' started by Inka, Apr 18, 2002.

  1. Inka Cosmic Princess Registered Senior Member

    Hi, does anyone know if Physical constants would change/be different is parallel universes??
    I've asked loads of people but no-one seems to have ideas so far.
    Inka x
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  3. thed IT Gopher Registered Senior Member

    Probably because 'parallel universe' is a sci-fi term.

    There is a version of Inflation theory that allows differing parts of the Universe to have different properties. Differnent constants I suppose. Another allows for a never ending series of continuous inflation events. Both probably allow for differing constants as the 'bubbles' don't know about each other.
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  5. KneD Le Penseur Registered Senior Member

    difficult question.
    offcourse there are the same physics rules.
    and the constants must be in a certain proportion, else this universes wouldn't exist.

    I think the constants are the same too...masses of electrons and proton stuff must be the same, I can not imagine how it could be something else. And to keep this atoms stable....the forces must be the same to, if the mass is the same.

    so yeah, I quess rules and constants are the same.
    Differences are possible in density and accelaration of the universes though.
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  7. Crisp Gone 4ever Registered Senior Member

    Hi Inka,

    As thed said, "parallel universes" are mostly science-fiction, but I do think that there could be different values for elementary constants like e, h, c, ... Recently a book was published (I forgot the title but it believe it was called 'the six magic numbers' or something along those lines) that describes the delicate balance between six elementary constants in physics and whether or not a universe could exist (or give rise to life) depending on the values of those constants.

    I never read it however, but perhaps this gives you something to look for on google

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  8. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

    I'm not too sure but these might be the numbers (could be wrong, they were given to me many years ago over a discussion about "how many parallel worlds exist".

    1 , 4 , 6 , 10 , 11 , 26

    As to wether a parallel is fiction or not, people only perceive it to be fiction, as to observe a universe filled with parallels from a multiworlds perspective would take you to split yourself like schrodingers cat.

    As apt at parallel processing as the human mind might be, I don't think it was ever sculptured to take in multiworlds in any other form than mathematics on paper.

    For instance the perception that some writers might place on parallels is the fact that at some point a timeline diverges due to some choice that for some reason it took both choices.

    (A bit like turning right and left at a junction)

    This reasoning is absurd because any decision you make for taking that turn is in a forwards motion along the timeline. So when you decide to take right, you do actually turn right, and don't take left ever.

    The only time a parallel is actually created is when a message from the version of you that turns right is sent back to before you made the choice, and you manage to tell yourself to turn left.

    You now have two parallels, but they both operate in the same frame up until the deviation. This is where people have been sinical about what occurs.

    From the perspective put forwards by the legendary Schrodingers Cat Experiment, there is a possibility of a wave collapse. Since you turn right, your wave formations throughout your quantum entangled self shift to the "right" universe.

    And the same can be said with the "left" universe, this means at some point when the split occurs a full loss of wave functions can occur, and a version of you drops dead. (unless paramedic is standing by).

    So now we have a three way fork at that T junction, one of you when right, the other left, and the very unlucky one dropped dead. (if your lucky the split wouldn't make you drop dead, but just make you feel real uncomfortable while it occurs, afterall your "whole" quanta is now split in two.)

    Now I mention a quanta split, admittedly I say two, but due to quantum entanglement there is no way of truly knowning how many splits occur throughout your body to pull of such a split.

    You might be asking, if I'm not 50% or 33% my previous quanta, why can't I walk through walls... Well the whole universe has been split that amount too, so in relativity (relation to your universe) you have the same quanta you had as when you started.

    Now people can't get their heads around how an atom can be split, but as I mentioned in a previous post my understanding is that atoms are "photonic matrix's" Highly sped photons from the highest region of the spectrum.

    My understanding I think coincides with Schrodingers mentioning of Wave formations, and explains that our universe is "holographic". (deduced without reading Talbot)

    I mentioned about the split of a parallel, but I didn't explain fully that it wouldn't occur fully without SPACETIME folding through the use of Super-conductors or Quantum jumping machines.

    I would detail more on that subject, but there's always and air of unreadiness when it comes to that discussion.

    One thing I will mention about parallels is "Ghosts", the ghosts I'm refering to are parallels that exist in such close proximity to our own that at times we get a glimps of them.

    For instance if I walked past a bench and on another world loads of events had made a homeless man sit there, but on my world that homeless man has died through some "event".

    I might walk along and pretend to not notice him as many might do (or just not notice walking to my destination), I turn my head to one side and glimps someone sitting their, and as I continue... I realise no one is there. (because he's on another world, and I only saw him because I existed as an observer of a multiworld state at that position before Iwalked on.

    I hope you have waded through all that and manage to gain some clue of the answers you are looking for.


    I had a conversation with someone that mentioned that he ahd heard that we are only 3 seconds away from a alternate universe, Think of it a bit like a frame on an old fashioned movie reel, those 3 seconds is the frame in front, the frame that went right and the frame that has been known to try and make the one below it go left.

    Personally I wouldn't want to detach myself from a timeline.
  9. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

    Hey i was wondering (in responce to c and stuff being changed) could Pi be changed like that and what would be the effects?

    i was reading a scifi book (can't think of the name) and out a potato astoried that has this 7 chambers and in the 7th theres this freaky tunnel that bends geometry and i couldn't really rap my head around it when they are talking about changing things like Pi
  10. SpyFox_the_KMeson Doctorate of Yiffology Registered Senior Member


    Well, Pi could easily be changed, all you'd have to do is change the geometry of the universe.

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    I think this is true anyways, I forget whether or not Pi stays the same for different geometries... and I'm too lazy to look it up.
  11. ImaHamster2 Registered Senior Member

    Consider a “flat” circle with a diagonal line. Define Pi as the ratio of the circumference to that diameter. Now “push” on the center of the circle, stretching the diameter while leaving the circumference fixed. Pi decreases.

    Is Pi the same for all circles in this curved space? Small areas in curved space (except near discontinuities) are nearly flat. So measuring Pi using very small circles gives the standard “flat” value. Pi would vary depending on the curvature of space and the size of the circle. (Or one could define Pi as the value derived using “flat” space. In that case, Pi is a universal constant that does not depend on spatial curvature but could no longer be used as the ratio of circumference to diameter for large circles.)
  12. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

    It seems I was right in that post about hamster wheels

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  13. itchy Registered Senior Member

    I think it was in a book by Paul Davies (professor in astrophysics) where i read that our universal constants are so precisely tuned that if they were nudged by only one part in a million then the universe as we know it "would not work".

    This should imply that there would have to be an immense number of tries before finding a universe that works.

    I'm a little annoyed by how people talk about paralell universes or bubbles in some super universe. This can't be shown threw any experiments or empirical evidence since it is beyond our limits and thus does not belong in the realms of physics but metaphysics. And weather we see these different universes as being alongside each other in a super universe or totaly alone makes no differnce at all. I think every universe should just be seen as a random event that is not influated by any other universe or force.
  14. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

    Now im REALLY confused

    I just can't visulise how you could change the diamter without the curcumfrance

    Thanks for trying though
  15. Boris2 Valued Senior Member

    "Just Six Numbers" by Martin Rees.

    Another good one is "The Life of the Cosmos" by Lee Smolin.
  16. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member


    I think our Hamster friend meant pushing down on the centre to create a funnel. (well a dip.)
  17. ImaHamster2 Registered Senior Member

    Yep. Might help to imagine that one is an ant crawling on the surface with the circle. The ant can’t “see” any difference when the diameter passes over the dip. However the ant can measure that the diameter is longer than when the circle was flat.

    Just as a two dimensional surface can curve in three-dimensional space, three-dimensional space can curve in higher dimensional spaces. The 3-D inhabitant may not notice the curvature as all the reference standards for “straight” such as light beams and rulers curve with the space. However certain measurements can show the space is curved.
  18. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

    Well you could note that just as the Gravity of the sun keeps the planets in orbit (okay they too have their own gravity but not too such an extent)

    I tend to believe that the gravity of the sun is a form of spacial collapse through multiple time layers to give it such gravity, while planetary gravity is just shaped by the sun as it's distortion axis.

    This would mean that all solar bodies through the galaxy and our universe would have their own time dialations.
  19. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

    Untill that last post i actually understood what you were talking about
  20. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

    Sorry I have a nasty habit of trunkating sometimes. (leaving bits off and not explaining what I "See".)

    This usually hapens between a mixture of coffee, late nights trying to do things with some computers or gaming, a small amount of insomnia and a buch of people with a nasty habit of interupting me.

    Quite simply I was looking at how the gravity of the sun doesn't let it's material (gases) escape, if they are on a trajectory away from the sun, they get to a point where they lose momentum and start heading back towards the sun gainnig momentum.

    A bit like us throwing a ball in the air, and having it come back down.

    Now due to the suns intense size, all these gases doing this in a spherical area, cause a great amount of friction as they dance through knocking each other, causing friction and even fission nearer the centre (and possibly fusion).

    I was mentioning the time dialation, because the way I see these molecules shifting around, there is a probability that sometimes they accelerate enough to puncture a hole through the fabric of timespace at the suns point, giving it an overlay of gravities through mutliworlds.

    I suppose this in a awy mirrors steady state, but just localised to the sun.
  21. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

    Hang on

    Solar flares play with the earths magnetic field making the Aura

    So they escaped, didn't they?
  22. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

    Thats just a slingshot effect to make it escape, as for it being electromagnetic, it means that's higher than normal lightspeed.
  23. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

    Im going to sound stupid but light is electro-magnetic isnt it?
    (i haven't done this stuff since school a cople of years ago)

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