Palestinians: one state is better than none

Discussion in 'Politics' started by S.A.M., May 9, 2008.

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  1. Mr.Spock Back from the dead Valued Senior Member

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    none of your conclusion can be deducted from my posts. the last one you took out of context, it was a JOKE(as it is obvious :bugeye

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    . i even said joos once and got a warning does that mean i hate jews?

    im an israeli of course im biased towered them!!!!

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    give it up, you accused me for no reason. i just want to know where the heck did i ever said i hate lebanese?????
     
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  3. Mr.Spock Back from the dead Valued Senior Member

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    :roflmao:
     
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  5. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    Palestinians, as has been pointed out elsewhere, are not a race.

    Their leadership (Hamas) does want this.

    The conflict started even when those settlers bought up unused land and established towns and farms.

    Actually, I think they already did back in 1948.

    Propaganda fixed.

    Best regards,

    Geoff
     
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  7. Sciencelovah Registered Senior Member

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    I see someone who have lost their argument and started to say irrelevant
    things as a troll. I have better things to do than to feed a troll. Welcome to
    my list.

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  8. Zakariya04 and it was Valued Senior Member

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    Hi inzomnia

    you ok??

    Unfortunately spocky.. knows "too many muslims" so things arent so straight forward with him espically as doesnt want to explain what he means by that phrase ...

    ~~~~~~~~~
    take care
    zak
     
  9. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    24,690
    Huh???
    • Race: 1. A group or population of persons related by common descent or heredity, e.g the Semitic race.
    • 2. An arbitrary classification of modern humans, sometimes based on physical characteristics such as skin color, facial form, or eye shape, but now frequently based on such genetic markers as blood groups, e.g. the Caucasian race.
    • 3. A human population partially isolated reproductively from other populations, whose members share a greater degree of physical and genetic similarity with one another than with other humans, e.g. the Native American race.
    • 4. A group of tribes or peoples forming an ethnic stock, e.g. the Slavic race.
    • 5. Any people united by common history, language, cultural traits, etc., e.g. the Dutch race.
    • --Definitions relevant to this thread abstracted from Dictionary.com
    The Palestinians qualify under all of these definitions.
    • 1. They are descended from a tribe of Canaanites, just like the Jews and the Phoenicians.
    • 2. They have genetic markers which have been used to verify this descent.
    • 3. They have maintained sufficient isolation to retain their genetic identity.
    • 4. They have survived as an ethnic group for several millennia.
    • 5. This is perhaps the weakest category since they have been strongly assimilated into Arab culture, including the Arabic language and the Muslim religion, yet they identify themselves readily enough by their history, especially their history of the last few centuries.
     
  10. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    You're using the Dutch as an example of a race?

    The genetic identity of Palestinians is, so far as I recall, no different to that of Occidental or European (Ashkenazim) Jews. It would be racist if one were abusing all Semites on the basis of their Semitism.
     
  11. Bells Staff Member

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    24,270
    And? Does that mean it is 'ok' to discriminate against them regardless? Use the excuse 'well it's not racist because they aren't a race'?
     
  12. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    24,690
    I pulled that example straight out of the dictionary. It's a little old-fashioned but hardly obsolete. Americans referred to the Chinese and Japanese as (distinct) races up until the 1960s, and many still refer to the Mexicans as a race.
    And I've read assertions that the Palestinians, Lebanese and Jews are identifiably distinct but closely related populations, which correlates with their history as Canaanite tribes. The Palestinians in particularly are probably descended from Canaanites who were neighbors of the Hebrews or even members of the same community, who chose not to adopt the Jewish religion. In three thousand years there's been plenty of time for them to be established as a "race" by any or all of the other definitions.

    In any case the pace of DNA analysis has increase enormously over the past couple of years, so it won't be long before the genetic side of this issue is conclusively settled.
    In vernacular speech, "racism" applies to any of the five definitions I listed, which is surely the democratic reason that an American dictionary includes them--as opposed to some languages in which an Academy passes judgment on words. Americans who persecute Mexicans, Mexican-Americans and their children are consistently accused of "racism," despite Mexico's "Melting Pot" being a considerably richer mixture of both DNA and culture than our own.

    As for "Semites" and "antisemitism," we lost that linguistic battle a couple of generations ago. While "Semites" and "Semitic" still apply to the whole set of related ethnic groups including Aramaeans, Jews, Arabs, Palestinians, Lebanese and others, and their myriad languages, "antisemitism" is universally defined as targeting only Jews.

    The evolution of language is not logical.
     
  13. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    22,087
    No, but race above is being used for greater impact, which is intellectually dishonest. Classic DH. That's what I'm objecting to.
     
  14. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    For all you deniers out there:

    I do believe I love Americans after all (okay, at least the elites). Yeehaw!

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    Maybe now we can finally have a true contribution of Israel in the Middle East. Perhaps they may even create a Middle Eastern Union with Jerusalem as the center and free passage for people of all religions and nationalities as in the EU. That would be awesome!!!!

    http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/987446.html
     
  15. Mr.Spock Back from the dead Valued Senior Member

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    and the jews who came from europe go back in ships? or meet their maker? im not whoowing.
     
  16. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Oh I doubt anyone will be going anywhere, I personally think the right thing would be for all Middle Eastern countries to offer return to anyone who wants to come back - regardless of their religion. I'm pretty sure that most people will stay put where they are, with only a few being willing to uproot selves and family and jobs.

    A poll of the Palestinian refugees for example showed that only about 10% of the 7 million wanted to come back; which is about 700,000, the number of people that was driven away.

    Plus, if all countries with Palestinian refugees should accompany Israel in offering citizenship to the Palestinians in their countries, I bet that number would also sharply drop some more. Any peace deal that aims at real peace should have all these options available. Along with deals to welcome Israel into the business community without special restrictions. If they did all this, within a decade, people would be more concerned with making money and enjoying it, rather than fighting. More than anything, Arabs are businessmen and enjoy business as part of their social lives.
     
  17. Mr.Spock Back from the dead Valued Senior Member

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    just a few days ago you stated the opposite. the fact that now you say differently only strengthen my mind that a one state solution is just another way to eliminate israel.

    i dont find it as a solution at all, unless you have a problem with israel existence. which is obvious the problem to begin with. israelis wont give up their country so fast, i assure you that, and we are not naive.
     
  18. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    It really does not matter what I say, people are free to disregard my opinions.

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    But in general I play devils advocate.

    But based on what I have read, Palestinians want the right to return, but may not necessarily exercise that right. Like Jews and Israel, plenty are happy to visit and leave.


    http://www.forward.com/articles/10504/
     
  19. Mr.Spock Back from the dead Valued Senior Member

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    yeah, we knew that. but inspite that, i trust my senses that there is more to it then that.

    nevertheless the chances are higher for bugs bunny to come to life then a one state to emerge.
     
  20. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Quite the reverse, actually; for teh first time in decades, Palestinians and Americans are getting on the same page. Israel cannot afford to lose 3 billion a year either. Everyone knows US policy shapes the ME.
     
  21. Mr.Spock Back from the dead Valued Senior Member

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    i think the US congress is more zionists then our parliament.

    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3536145,00.html

    and in the end we decide the shape of our country. its not going to be a one state.
     
  22. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Geez Louise, what makes you think US Congress has any influence on US foreign policy?

    Hamas would agree with you.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2008
  23. Mr.Spock Back from the dead Valued Senior Member

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    i thought he fatah would agree with us. we practically armed and trained them because it was supposed to bring us all peace. if we can get along in two separate areas, why should we in one?

    and if we installed a jewish state on their land, so they are going to agree to get along with the same jews?

    no, i dont think so.
     
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