Palestinian PM: We'll form de facto state by 2011

No, this should fit squarely into the History forum. IMO there is absolutely no debate as to the reality of this tragedy. I have heard many, many, utterly tragic first hand accounts of what transpired. However, whether debating the details of the Holocaust will be considered a crime on this forum, we will have to first ascertain? And of course, due respect and sensitivity would be a requirement.

Fair comment.

Yes, between a hard place and a rock. Does one submit or resist? Violence is a potential consequence of resistance, and dissolution is a potential consequence of submission. I would honestly advocate discussions and negotiations above any other means.

 

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Not a consequence, here: resistance is violence.

Resistance can only be non-violent if whatever you're resisting requies you to be an active participant. You can resist homework without violence, but you cannot resist a territorial dispute that way.

Discussions and negotiations must be backed by violence, if they are to amount to "resistance" rather than "submission."

 

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You'll have to ask the rabbis, considering its their legend. Jews who did not observe the Shaboth or broke it were transformed into apes and pigs. Not sure what law you have to break to become mosquitoes

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So, did you keep the Shaboth dear?

 

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who occupied 70% of the land Israel. Who are you too much of a bigot to assign blame too Israel.

 

in other words ignoring that international law at the level of geopolitics recognizing rights. Your turning into another buffalo ignoring shit you say when its bites you.

 

Then again, they didn't just send them out hoping for a photo op while they hung back to "guard the rear" and collect $5K from Saddam Hussein.

Then just change the name of Israel to Judea. I promise to call it that from now until forever if the rockets stop falling.

Azzam Pasha? He certainly seems to be agitating for it.

Isi Leibler, actually. Still, Benny seems a pretty impartial judge. But if you really don't like Isi, how about these?

You could also try here:

http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_independence_arab_countries.php

 

Yes, sadly as Rachel Corrie discovered. Even peaceful resistance ended in violence.

Yes, but I believe this can and will change given the right initiative.

 

And greedily absorbed by the writers of the Quran to include all Jews and Christians, in effect.

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Please: it hardly matters to you or "mike47".

 

So africa, the middle east, the near east, the indian subcontinent, and south east asia were never under the control of a colonial power?

 

The good stuff was all left out:

Abodah-Zarah 26b, says: “The best among the gentiles deserves to be killed. The best of snakes ought to have its head crushed.”

“Just the Jews are humans, the Non-Jews are no humans, but cattle.” (goyim - human cattle) - (Kerithuth 6b page 78, Jebhammoth 61a)

“The Non-Jews have been created to serve the Jews as slaves.” - (Midrasch Talpioth 225)

“The Non-Jews have to be avoided, even more than sick pigs.” - (Orach Chaiim 57, 6a)

“Sexual intercourse with Non-Jews is like sexual intercourse with animals” - (Kethuboth 3b)

“The birth-rate of the Non-Jews has to be suppressed massively” - (Zohar II, 4b)

“As you replace lost cows and donkeys, so you shall replace dead Non-Jews.” - (Iore Dea 337,1)

“To box an Israeli on the ear, is like to box on the ear of god.” - (Sanhedrin 58b)

"God (Jahveh) is never angry about the Jews, just about the Non-Jews” - (Talmud IV/8/4a)

“The human (Jew) has to pray every day three times, because Jahveh didn’t make him a goyim, not a female and not an ignorant.” - (Talmud V/2/43b + 44a)

"There is no wife for the goyim, they really aren’t their wives” - (Talmud IV/4/81 + 82ab)

“Jews always have to try to deceive Non-Jews” - (Zohar I, 168a) - Very true!

“Non-Jewish property belongs to the Jew who uses it first” - (Babba Bathra 54b)

“If two Jews have deceived a Non-Jew, they have to split the profit” - (Choschen Ham 183,7)

“Every Jew is allowed to use lies and perjury to bring a Non-Jew to ruin” - (Babha Kama 113a)

“The Jew is allowed to exploit the mistake of a Non-Jew and to deceive him” - (Talmud IV/1/113b)

“The Jew is allowed to practice usury on the Non-Jew” - (Talmud IV/2/70b)

"If a Jew is tempted to do evil he should go to a city where he is not known and do the evil there" (Moed Kattan 17a) - Very righteous advice!

Sanhedrin 57a . A Jew need not pay a Gentile ("Cuthean") the wages owed him for work.

Baba Kamma 37b. Gentiles (non-jews) are outside the protection of the law and God has "exposed their money to Israel." - EACH YEAR, US gives more than $4 BILLION tax money of it's people to Israel!!

Yebamoth 98a. All Gentile children are animals.

Abodah Zarah 36b . "Gentile girls are in a state of niddah (filth) from birth." - Do you hear it gals?!

Abodah Zarah 22a-22b . "Gentiles prefer sex with cows." - An outright lie!

Gittin 57a . Says Jesus is being boiled in "hot excrement."

Shabbath 116a (p. 569). Jews must destroy the books of the Christians, i.e. the New Testament.

Menahoth 43b-44a . A Jewish man is obligated to say the following prayer every day: Thank you God for not making me a Gentile, a woman or a slave.

“A woman must wash herself again if she sees any unclean things, such as a dog, an ass, or People of the Earth; a Christian (Akum), a camel, a pig, a horse, and a leper.” [Biur Hetib, a commentary on the Schulchan Arukh]


Think of all the fun we could have with that!!!

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Sure they were.

The Ottomans.

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What fucking planet do you live in? the ottoman's controlled south east asia?

 

I'm having fun with it right now. That's an old anti-Semitic list that used to be tossed around. Amusing that you had it on "speed-dial".

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BTW: that original quote you attributed to Benny Morris comes from the NYT. Gotcha again.

 

Calm down, pj. I was teasing.

You only ever get riled up about one side of the issue.

 

The Talmud is antisemitic!!!!

And what is their source? They heard him say it?

 

Rather, your interpretation is so designed. Very well: demonstrate where such passages are used in the way you suppose. I can wait.

Hehe. Ah! Now we cannot believe newspaper citations! Don't believe anything that contradicts you, Sam; that's the spirit. We can probably discount all those nonsensical stories of mislaid air strikes in Afghanistan, then. The writers certainly didn't see them do it!

 

Why wait? You can experience every one of those live in the occupied territories!

Sure we can believe newspaper citations, but a quote like that must have a source, even in newspapers/

 

Okay SAM since obviously nothing else will appease you.

We took Israel, all of your attempts to invade have failed. So by every law of warfare, nature, and just plain logic make us the designated "rulers" of the land, not you. If your pissed that you lost, deal with it, next time, try beign a bit friendly with your allies.

 

um no not really. The laws in place if they are actually enforced in the proper manner would have the palestinians the rightful rulers. and wars of aggression like the jews in 48 are against international law.

 

I wouldn't like it, but I personally own my home. The Arabs do not, as a race, own all the land. The multicultural nature of human settlement in the region over history attests to that. Some Arabs owned parts of it, for which they or their direct descendants deserve compensation when lost. Jews also owned parts of it, a fact which made the immigration of other Jews a human right. Jews could accept other Jews into their communities, and to not allow this in the aftermath of war would have been a grave human rights violation. Political issues developed which required attention, as it would in any growing nation, and the solution was decided by the UN, an international Democratic body, under the principle of imminent domain. Sometimes individuals have to lose something for the common good, like when the government takes your personal land to build a highway. The Arabs did not, as a race, have the exclusive right to determine the future of everyone. Where was the Palestinian government that could have addressed these issues?

So, several Arab countries joined together to solve their issues in a most undemocratic way, through military force, an action that even when well planned, would have resulted in the deaths of innocent Arabs and Jews. After such an action, why should anyone have any faith in their ability to be fair? The Jews did the only thing they could do, which is to fight back. Many of them may have been refugees, but they felt like there was no turning back. It was fight or let yourself become a victim again, and in your ancestral home, the religious significance of which was on par with Mecca to Muslims. There was no theft here, only a people having to make their way as a minority, like any immigrant class in the USA. Do you think it was any easier for the Irish? Is it any easier for the Mexicans?

The Arabs, as an ethnic group, made a choice to abandon democracy and instead embraced war. At that point, one loses any credibility to claim about territorial rights. There are only human rights. Arabs, Muslims, Christians, or Druze have the right to assemble into communities of like-minded people. But the Arab world is indeed vast, and such communion is far from absent.

Jews could have no input politically in the future of Palestine, under the threat of death. No matter that Jews had been living in communities there for some time. And, there were actual armies assembling all around them. At that point it's them or us. Whatever I manage to destroy of yours, the better. If you lose territory, well, that's the gamble you made, and you have to live with it. They didn't have to go that route.