Palestine pushes for UN general assembly recognition

Discussion in 'World Events' started by chimpkin, Sep 4, 2011.

  1. Zakariya04 and it was Valued Senior Member

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    thank you for your reply

    Have a look at this CptBork

    http://www.israelinsider.com/channels/diplomacy/articles/dip_0009.htm

    or this

    http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-8634024.html
     
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  3. CptBork Valued Senior Member

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    That was 10 years ago, when hundreds of Palestinians were serving as loyal firecrackers blowing up buses and nightclubs. Now that the firecrackers have lost their effectiveness, and peaceful tactics have won over most Palestinians for the time being, this is a far more appropriate time to be asking for peacekeepers and observers. However, one thing touched on in those articles which still carries over to the present is that the UN would be unable to police the border, whether temporary or permanent, unless Israel makes concessions on the settlements so that such a border can actually be drawn, just as the Palestinians will have to concede claims beyond Israel's green line (outside the appropriate legal venues and negotiations, that is). Hence if the Palestinians request a peacekeeping force now, with Israel's current diplomatic standing, it will be extremely difficult for Israel to reject such a proposal while convincing anyone (including the US) that it wants a fair and just peace.
     
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  5. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Okay, here is my take on the Palestinian push for statehood

    I watched Abbas plead the case for a Palestinian state yesterday to overwhelming applause by the international community. Israeli newspapers have compared him to Lady Gaga, for the overwhelming standing room only audience that gave him a standing ovation for his cause. Avigdor Lieberman walked out on Abbas negating the Bibi Netanyahu/Milikovsky's spurious claim of extending a "hand" to Palestinians. The US sat stiffly throughout - no applause - but they did not walk out.

    Abbas was followed by Bibi whose aggressive and irrational discourse received no response from his audience except for a small group of Jewish activists and of course, the Americans. He gave a lecture on Jewish history from the Bible to the Holocaust, inserted references to 9/11, Islamic terrorism, Iran, the sea of weapons which is flowing into Gaza to destroy the small defenceless [but for 400 nuclear weapons] Jewish state and insinuated that the UN is antisemitic and filled with the Dark Force

    Haaretz and Richard Silverstein at Tikun Olam have done an accurate and in depth analysis of his speech so I won't bother. Suffice to say that before Abbas' sincere and honest approach, Bibi looked like an overgrown and spoiled adolescent who wanted to get his own way. He did not convince anyone in the mostly empty hall he spoke to

    Obama's speech was received in complete silence from the international community. There was no applause and no one clapped for him as he tore apart the American Declaration of Independence and declared it null and void for Palestinian self determination

    The coverage was sloppy on CNN but full and extensive on Al Jazeera which conducted interviews with Palestinians, Israelis and Americans in depth. I saw some vague coverage on CNN but they cut off most of the Palestinian viewpoints so it didn't inform the average American much


    So what now?

    I think Obama's speech was a resignation of the US role as a mediator in the I-P conflict. It may also be a retreat of US policy from the Middle East. It is also - if my instincts are right - the beginning of the end of the Israel Lobby in the US.

    The two state solution is definitely over. There will be no Palestinian state

    My take is that Tony Blair will bluff and blather and threaten Abbas and Sarkozy will do his utmost to make Bibi see sense.

    Both will fail. I can't see China or Russia getting involved

    I have to say that for the first time in my memory, I found myself respecting Abbas. He's definitely NOT backing down. What he will do is try for another six months. When he fails, he will dismantle the PA and stop pretending that there is a Palestinian government. He will hand ocer the responsiblity of maintaining the occupation to Israel and they will have no choice but to take it or leave it to Hamas

    Palestinians have already moved beyond 67 borders. Pamela Olson was in Ramallah and she said no one has any faith in Abbas or in the possibility of a two state solution. Plus they see no reason why they should accept bantusans and give up 70% of their historic homeland. They will not fight anymore. They will lay down all their weapons, which is the strongest weapon of all and ask for equal rights.

    So, it will be the one state solution after all. I don't think the Israelis have got the memo yet.

    Palestinian activist: Why I’m not celebrating statehood

    disclaimer: all of the above is my opinion.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2011
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  7. StrawDog disseminated primatemaia Valued Senior Member

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    Fair comment, it is heartening to see how this event has shaken everyone up after decades of nothing. Lots of squirming around by US & Israel in the face of clear, rational and peaceful behavior and talk by Abbas. As for Abbas, after years of nothing, he has nothing to lose and the timing, events and mood of the Arab Spring is perfect to showcase and expose the hypocrisy around freedom. His passive and dignified behavior is obvious. To all.

    IMO

    Tony Blair will soon eventually be exposed for the fraud and criminal that he is.

    I don`t believe the possibility of a two state solution is off the table yet. There is in essence - and if sanity prevails - no reason this cannot work.

    Very important going forward, I hope Hamas can find the courage to join Abbas and stand united.
     
  8. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    On what basis do you think the two state solution is still possible? The settlers have already formed "price tag" groups where they "punish" Palestinians for their statehood bid with acts of terrorism


    And they are angry because activists and Palestinians have formed neighborhood watch patrols


    The French JDL has been permitted to enter the West Bank when white haired European liberals were turned away at Ben Gurion airport

    Do these people look like negotiators?

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    source: http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/features/2011/09/201192343750232386.html
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2011
  9. StrawDog disseminated primatemaia Valued Senior Member

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    On the basis that something is better than nothing. In the near term this is achievable as opposed to the unachievable one state. Whats needed, and what will benefit the average Palestinian is pragmatism not vengeance - and Abbas knows that.
    The apartheid reality is being exposed, it will not last.
    The world is watching.
     
  10. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    The reality on the ground:

     
  11. StrawDog disseminated primatemaia Valued Senior Member

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    This is hot air and will never happen. If it does - back to Intifada - not good for Israel and they know it.
     
  12. The Esotericist Getting the message to Garcia Valued Senior Member

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    This is surprising? Why should this be so? Israel was established and predicated on a Zionist philosophy and it has been the settlers and continuing the expansion of the Zionist dream which is in direct opposition to a two state solution. The two out comes are mutually exclusive. Of course they are going to exact revenge upon the very people that go to the world community, their last recourse for assistance in getting freedom from their bondage.

    I suppose it might come as a mild shock if one were clueless about the settlers mind set. I found it interesting that the Israeli state KNEW, from early summer this was coming, and train them like an army, for this very confrontation. I'm not sure, but it might be a prelude to provoke an excuse for annexation?

    Israel’s Operation Summer Seeds
     
  13. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    More on how the US-Israel "special" relationship works for Palestinian self determination

    Issue of Israel as Jewish state sank Quartet moves:

    Hmm so what does the US do?

    Palestinian sources indicate that they wish to get a simple majority in the UNSC so that the US is forced to use the veto, ending once and for all any remaining skepticism on the part of anyone in the world, what the US position is in the I-P debate. Whether this will lead to a special emergency session based on UNGA resolution 377 A to ignore the US veto or whether the Palestinians will be content with a two thirds majority in the UNGA, has not been made clear yet
     
  14. Gustav Banned Banned

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    12,575
    brilliant
    it would be wonderful to see the local zionistas primping and preening in all their jackbooted glory
     
  15. nirakar ( i ^ i ) Registered Senior Member

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    Almost everybody with any interest in the Israel/Palestine topic already knows that the US government is biased in favor of Israel and most of those that don't know the US is biased in favor of Israel won't be swayed from their position by a USA veto.

    Do any of the Israel supporters here at Sciforums think the US government is neutral? Even the people who think want the USA to help Israel conquer al the land between the Nile and the Euphrates know that while the USA government is biased in favor of Israel even if though the US government will not "support" Israel in the way that they want.

    Every US politician pretends the US is neutral but other than Charlie Rose and a few gullible old ladies who have they fooled?
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2011
  16. nirakar ( i ^ i ) Registered Senior Member

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  17. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Ask and ye shall receive

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eB6YeA6hmVE&feature=player_embedded#!

    Settler attack on Palestinians near Anatot settlement. The Palestinian farmer and his wife had their head bashed in. The Israeli and other activists were assaulted. Interestingly Anatot is the residence of "career" cops.

    report here: http://mondoweiss.net/2011/09/israe...spitalized.html/comment-page-1#comment-372277
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2011
  18. Gustav Banned Banned

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    /frown

    what? you claim there are scionistas in that video?

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    lemme scour facebook for a match

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  19. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Just read that Abbas is planning to dismantle the PA if he is not offered any progress in the next 90 days which is what I thought he would do as I said in post 63 except he did not even wait for six months



    Israel is close to inheriting a welfare population of 4 million Palestinians and this time, no one will pick up the tab for rebuilding what Israel breaks

     
  20. Zakariya04 and it was Valued Senior Member

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    6,045
    Ok So it looks like the palestinians UNESCO bid has been sucessful much to the anooyance of the US who obviously voted against it
    not exactly sure what the US wants the palestinains to do but anyway
     
  21. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Here is a guide to help out

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  22. Workaholic Registered Senior Member

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    135
    You're forgetting one:

    US offers free war planes --> expand settlements :bugeye:
     

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