Palestine pushes for UN general assembly recognition

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/04/world/middleeast/04mideast.html?_r=1&hp

Our reps, will, of course, veto

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, but I look forward to the general assembly vote.

 

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What do you think will change? I am a one stater because I don't think that a Palestinian state can survive under the Amalekly-to-kill-anyone-who-stands-in-the-way-of Eretz-Israel country next door.

Do you think this push for statehood will work?

 

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I don't think a Palestinian state can survive without the Israeli economy to support it. Certainly none of their arab cousins would spend a sheckel on a palestinian state.

 

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It's another step in the process, we'll see what good it does, no? If any.

 

Actually the Palestinian economy does not worry me at all. Just look at Gaza as an example. There is more than 70% unemployment and more than 80% of people qualify for humanitarian aid and they are under blockade now for six years ever since Hamas won the elections in 2006. Israel does not permit them to receive even sufficient aid to cover minimal requirements for all 1.5 million people. They live under some of the worst conditions in the world

Further:

Israel does not pay for the products or the shipping or its transfer. Instead they collect the taxes of the Palestinians to pay for their "security" constructions, Israel also charges $1000 "handling charges" per truck for all shipments going through it into Gaza [when they permit any of it, that is]. The required number of trucks are around 500 per day, but Israeli permits vary from as little as 20 trucks per week to as many as 500 [per week]. In all cases, they do not currently meet minimum requirements for the 1.5 million people of Gaza.

So are they all dead? No, they have a tunnel economy


http://socialistworker.org/2009/08/19/gazas-tunnel-economy

If they can survive under such conditions they can surely do much better when independent.

Incidentally, this also helps:

 

http://communities.washingtontimes....inian-economy-dangerously-dependent-foreign-/

This is not a viable economy for an independent state.

 

The PA is a puppet government so why is that surprising? One cannot serve two masters equally

Meanwhile, this is the bigger deterrant to survival

I'm curious, what do Americans think about their government position on the two state solution, which they supposedly support in theory, but actively veto in practice?

 

This isn't a push for "statehood." It's a push for recognition. Palestine won't be any more or less of a state than it is right now, no matter what votes get cast in the UN General Assembly. Statehood is a matter of building institutions, developing civil society, monopolizing the use of violence, establishing a domestic political order that supports all this, etc. It is not done by diplomats casting votes in New York. That's recognition, not statehood.

 

Palestinian statehood...isn't being allowed to manifest by Israel though.

The Palestinian state can't monopolize the violence, it has Israel to compete against.

I'm not sure this is going to do much good...I like that they may be able to pursue legal action in the ICC, but then who's going to enforce the decisions? Basically, I hope it gives the Palestinians more protection than they currently have, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

Does a General Assembly vote change that one way or the other?

The "monopoly on violence" is generally understood to mean in domestic terms. It is not required that you be able to prevent other states (especially, more powerful ones) from warring you - the point is that the polity in question isn't split into armed factions that contest the legitimacy of the state, or embrace alternative systems of justice and legislation, etc. Palestinians have to all basically agree that this one entity is the one and only valid system of justice, national defense, law, public order, etc.

This aspect is overblown, I think. But regardless, probably does more to sensationalize and internationalize the conflict, than to meaningfully address it and fix things and protect actual people on the ground. Time will tell, I suppose...

 

A veto by US will just displays the hypocrisy of the US, and them serving as a 'mediator' as only a convenient hoax. The move by the Palestinians is a superb way to expose this deception called the 'Peace Process'.

 

Except that Palestine - unlike armchair moralists on the internet - is presumably more interested in more mundane political ends, than it is in dramatic gestures to indict the hypocrisy of America.

 

Who cares what Palestine is after- the farce that is called a 'Peace Process' is toast.

 

Of course, like food, water and security.

Notwithstanding the hypocrisy and moral bankruptcy of said invoked nation. :m:

 

What mundane political ends?

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Meanwhile:

Everyone has screwed with the Palestinians to achieve their own ends. What will Turkey achieve?

 

There's some ironic tension between those two clauses that I'm presently too lazy to explicate... let's just say that those in the table-pounding, spittle-flecked Palestine-advocacy camp should probably avoid starting posts with the phrase "Who cares what Palestine is after".

 

the veto only applies to the security council

 

I'm not an armchair moralist, I'm an armchair lunatic.
Therefore I'm interested in whatever might get the Palestinians food, water, medicine, economic opportunities, and not randomly shot at.

Not being shot at can be defined as the start of a potentially good day.

 

Do you reject the Palestinian right to Statehood? :m:

 

What is this right to statehood? I vote for freedom from occupation and the right to self determination. I do not believe this push for statehood will work. I do believe however, it has the power to change the status quo. You can tell because the leaders are scrambling around trying to figure out what to do to stop it. The same leaders who do not bother with international laws or political pressure from other countries are afraid of the people.

In the HuffPo:

A reminder of what the Palestinians have to live with:

This is the future of Israel