Pakistan mob burns man to death for 'blasphemy'

I think I know what you are trying to say. That religion can teach irrational ideals. but to a person who is capable of rational thought it wont last. I grew up being told by my baptist great grandmother that black people were the descendants of Cain and therefore evil. I was too little to argue religion with her and I never asked anyone if what she said was true so no one refuted her. I also didn't know any black people personally. I did see black people on the news quite often being arrested and I was told that the police were the good guys. As a child I had no reason to think my great grandmother lied. But my brain doesn't work like that. I have never been able to take anything anyone has told me as "GOSPEL TRUTH" . I never challenged my great grandmothers assertions but never accepted them either. The first man I married was black and I have 3 beautiful mixed children from him. My fourth child was from second husband who was Pakistani. My grandmother has plenty to say about Pakistanis. I have met plenty that do not live up to her descriptions. Unfortunately the one I married did. But it is not my nature to accept blindly any anyone tells me. Even the pastor of my church got annoyed with me when I would constantly ask him 'WHY?'. There is a basic human nature but we are all still individuals. Some of us are more inclined to accept as fact whatever makes us feel good and whatever "proves" we are right. Some of us have a domineering nature, some of us are more submissive. People with hateful natures tend to interpret their faith as justifying hate. Those with compassionate natures tend to interpret their faith as being compassionate. Perhaps because of my inquisitive analytical nature I am unable to see the justifications for violence in Islam that others see. It may also be my reason for not believing in the existence of evil or good. My nature surely affects my interpretation of reality and influences the types of experiences I have. It is kinda like watching people on a roller coaster. They are all having the same physical experience. But some are terrified, some are laughing, some are totally thrilled and some are bored. The nature of each individual is affecting their interpretations of the experience.

 

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You assume that rational people cannot think that religious violence or bigotry is rational. But if the religion creates in a person a worldview in which religious assumptions seem rational, there is small hope that they will transcend it.

 

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You guys get that "rational" is not the same thing as "humanitarian" or "compassionate" or "enlightened" or whatever else, right?

That is can be perfectly rational to oppress, kill, war and destroy?

 

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I admit, I have a personal bias and belief that completely rational minded people would not fall for religious dogma. And what I mean by rational is people who believe in logical reasoning in spite of their feelings. If it is in one's nature to accept what they are taught without question they will be more willing to accept religion. Rationality is not something that is on or off. It is a spectrum. Some people are more rational than than others. The least rational will accept the most absurd justifications whereas someone who is moderately rational will say, "well I believe in a and b but not c." They will be the cherry pickers. The most logical and rationally minded people will dismiss religion all together along with any deity concepts. Because they require proof of things they are told.

The people who tend to be the majority are the cherry pickers of moderate normal range rationality. People like myself are at opposite ends of the spectrum but in comparable extremes to the religious fundamentalist who wants to die a martyr. Most people have faith and are not extremists and are not dangerous to anyone. The religion plays a good role in their life, keeping their conscience in check. The dangerous people are the ones at either end of the spectrum. Like myself and Osama bin laden. I say myself not because I would violently force my atheism on anyone. But I could dissuade someone from faith. If this person benefited greatly from their faith and I convinced them there is no god, then they may very well take their own life or go on a crime spree. We don't know to what degree a person is governed by the faith they follow. If someone is on the cusp of insanity, and that irrational fear of god is the only thing that keeps them from committing horrible acts, and I provide a strong enough argument to convince him that there is no god, then i have just unwittingly unleashed a monster to do what he wants to do without fear of eternal punishment.

I don't think I need to explain why Osama bin Laden was dangerous.

It is human beings with extreme human nature that act in extreme ways. There are many muslims who would agree that their religion dictates that a traitor be burned alive but few of them would be willing to do it. Because it goes against their nature. Serial killers kill because it's their nature to do so. Rapists rape because it's their nature to do so. Artists create art because it is their nature to do so. Altruistic people will show compassion to others because it is their nature. We act on our nature. Religion is just there.

I know I am over simplifying all this but I don't think I can adequately explain it in detail. Spidergoat, you are right, religious dogma can influence one's nature. But so can anything else. Our nature changes daily based on our experiences and how our mind interprets those experiences. If our interpretations of the day confirm our existing nature then our nature will remain the same but if our interpretations of the day create conflict within our nature then change will occur. Sometimes that experience is religiously motivated.

 

Absolutely, in certain situations, I consider it perfectly rational to kill entire civilizations of living things and have done it many times along with a maniacal laughter. I am terribly allergic to insect bites and will destroy ant hills, breeding grounds for mosquitoes, and any other nest of biting insects that gets too near my home. Bees on the other hand, though I am allergic to them, I will not kill. Because they do not see me as a food source and will only sting me if I threaten them.

 

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Was it something I said? Did the thread run its course or did I run everyone off? My apologies if I am in any way the reason people stopped talking. My last post was an attempt to lighten the mood a bit. Perhaps a miserable FAIL on my part.