Pakistan - Destabilization & Division

SAM, if you want to debate this issue with me again. You may open a thread regarding it. I like the direction in which this thread is heading and would not like to curtail it.

 

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I don't think there is anything to debate about regarding invasion of foreign territory and internationally recognised borders. I just wanted to point out that your fears about India are quite strange considering the invasions are happening the other way around.

By all means, continue with the topic of the thread.

 

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Outright invasion and humiliation of occupation, along with collective punishment against the Muslims of Kashmir, mandatory checkpoints, kidnapping of youngsters and rape of women, and forced settlement of Indian Hindus to de-Muslimize the populace is what angers the Kashmiris. India had 60 years to give the Kashmiris peace, and they only created a nightmare in the valley. India, being an ally of Israel, is no different in its approach to Kashmiris, as the Palestinians are treated.

The Kashmiris desire freedom, and as long as truth is on their side, they will be successful.

We will never agree on this topic, SAM. Best to leave it for another thread.

Thank you.

 

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My favourite story about Indian troops fighting Pakistanis on the Indo-Pak border is when the Indian Muslim troops went over towards the Pak camp yelling Allaho Akbar. Confused the shit out of the Pakistani troops.

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Okay I'll stop here.

 

Yawwwn. I will yet await your post not referring to India - I am an optimist.
:shrug:

DH,
When the state of Pakisthan is itself in doubt, what will you do with Kashmir even if say, it is handed over to you as a gift on a golden platter? Use it as some extra space for the fight?

 

All said, the degeneration of Pakisthan is a big threat to the region. I can see the rabid dogs fighting at the end of the street!

 

I worry more about the 3.4 million people displaced by the attacks, thats a huge crisis being brushed under the carpet.

http://www.ekklesia.co.uk/node/9565

 

Yes, desperation is the cause of these suicide bombings. A small group of savages is desperate to impose themselves as lords and kings over their peers and to stop them from singing and dancing. Yeah, I have a whole lot of sympathy for these whackos, as America must be the one telling them to become religious nutcases and make themselves into firecrackers for the glory of god and all that rubbish.

Yes, there certainly is an agenda of domination. The Pakistanis fear that the Indians will come over and rip their wiry little moustaches out, so they seek to dominate the foreign nation of Afghanistan in a vain attempt to win allies for their idiotic struggle. The excuse they give is that the Afghans are their "brothers", which is a common excuse used by occupiers and oppressors around the world. Well, if the Pakistanis are the Afghans' brethren, it's clearly an abusive family relationship and we, the rational, level-headed psychological counsellors of the world, are here to intervene and provide the traumatized Afghans with a foster family that loves them and treats them like human beings.

 

Here is one of those "wackos"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCCYJwLw3ik

Plenty more where that one came from

 

A fair point, and something that needs to be dealt with and corrected ASAP. But when the Taliban blows up children receiving candy and maims hundreds at a time, this is somehow forgiveable and understandable? Is their popular support supposed to rise when they do such things?

 

Name the guy who did that.

 

I can come up with a list of names, no problem, maybe I'll do that later on if that's so important to you, but I am on vacation and haven't been online as much as usual. In the meantime, I can clearly recall episodes of Canadian soldiers doing good things and having the Taliban take advantage of these things to blow up the population. There was one specific example I read in the papers where Canadian soldiers were handing out candy and toys to Afghan kids, and someone came in with a suicide vest and blew up a couple of soldiers and a whole bunch of Afghan kids and others- I believe the Taliban also mentioned that these kids deserved what they got, when they made their speech claiming responsibility. Incidents like that really don't make me feel bad about what my countrymen are doing in Afghanistan, if that's the kind of prick they're going up against.

 

Got a video link?

Including the 90 plus children they bombed I presumed?

 

Such a video would be quite a production. Let's see it.

 

The state of Pakistan is not in doubt because Indians wish it to be. Pakistan became a reality in 1947, when Pakistan defeated the invasion of its territory without a single military barracks of British armaments, while India inherited all of them. The British former viceroy Mountbatten even derided the founder of Pakistan thus "You will not even have enough money to buy a military canteen (water bottle) for your Pakistan". Pakistan defeated a nation ten times its size (compare 160 mil to 1 bil) three times and preserved its territorial sovereignty in the face of threat of invasion from India and the USSR. Thousands of Pakistani villagers were gassed in the invasion of Lahore in the 1960s and Indian paratroopers entered Pakistani streets dropped by helicopters. Women and children took up guns from inside the city walls, shooting landing Indian soldiers. Men tied explosives to their bodies and laid down in the tracks of the Indian tanks invading the city. Thus, the Indian invading army was so humiliated by simple villagers and a hastily formed Pakistani army, that they left leaving the ruins of all their invading tank divisions behind. During the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, Pakistani fighters entered Afghanistan to defend it against Soviet occupation. Hundreds of thousands of Afghanis, Pakistanis, and Arabs died in this bloody war, and before the US took interest in the affair (which was spearheaded by Gen. Zia ul Haq). Ragtag guerrillas kept the Soviet invasion in check for so long that at long last the US convinced itself that this affair may cause the destruction of the USSR. Throughout this entire time, Indian and Russian agents infiltrated Pakistan to plan bombs and snipe people in civilian neighborhoods throughout Pakistan. The violence being almost unbearable for the people of Karachi. The Soviet plan was the eventual conquest of Pakistan, and this served the interests of the Soviet's greatest ally in Asia, India. Pakistan's resilience and will to survive is well known throughout the world.

Pakistan is a reality, and it will not go away. Furthermore, the Kashmiri peoples suffering will one day come to an end, because any illegal and unjust occupation cannot sustain itself. Just as Palestine shall be free one day, so shall Kashmir. The occupied Kashmiris are more fertile than Indians, and Indian Muslims are the most fertile group in India, so the demographics favor eventual liberation of Kashmir. As the fertility rates in occupied Palestine far exceed Israel's too. Recently, the Indians are seeking help from the Israelis in retaining control of the valley, they have even began Hindu settlement into Muslim majority lands to dilute the Kashmiri freedom movement, but this move has been opposed by the people of the valley. It is very important to note that the Israelis constantly attempt to push Palestinians out of this land through government supported Jewish immigration into their land and eviction of Palestinians, the Indian occupiers in Kashmir are no different. This shows why Israelis have vested interests in demonizing Pakistanis, Afghanis, and Kashmiris, and attempted to portray dissension among them, when none exists. This can be observed above. Indeed, those who are weak and oppressed now shall be the kings of tomorrow, tyranny cannot sustain nations.

"And verily We have written in the Psalms (Zabur), after the Reminder: My righteous servants shall inherit the earth" (Al-Qur'an 21:105).

Ameen, Ya Rabb, Ameen.

 

I agree, it is in doubt intrinsically and by its own deeds.

I pity your school books and how you grew up studying them. Luckily you have internet now and can quickly google for REAL history and facts.

Yeah, more virtual reality of late.
But why do you keep defending it is a reality? No body challenged you girl!

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Just that it may not remain so.

Enough dreaming now about suffering elsewhere, go run and do something... your country is burning as you type!

So you mean the Indians will inherit the earth? starting with Pakisthan I guess?

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On another note, Obama recently reminded US is one of the largest muslim countries on the earth. Why not liberate US too - I am sure all US muslims would love to be part of the virtual reality called Pakisthan.

 

There is no case. Pakistan now, compared to only two years ago, is so different, one would think it is a completely different country. The situation began with the Lahore attack on the Sri Lankan cricket team (an ally of Pakistan btw), immediately after the Mumbai attack, which India blamed on Pakistani backed Kashmiri guerrilla groups. We have already discussed the Mumbai attacks in much detail, and in all likelihood it was a false-flag operation masterminded by Indian and Israeli agents. The assailants originated from the Jewish area of the city, in particular the Chabad house where they stockpiled all their weapons and supplies. One of the first victims, who was dragged out of his car and shot was Hemant Karkare, chief of the city ATS squad, who had been investigating the links of Hindu extremist groups involvement in several bombings in Muslim regions throughout India. These assailants, attacking mosques, bazaars, police stations are well funded and well supplied, it is ridiculous to suggest they are in any way related to the Afghani national resistance in Afghanistan. Furthermore, Indian agents and Afghani agents tied to Karzai have been captured on the borders of Northwestern Pakistan providing support for Balochi Bugti separatists and the TTP in the Pukhtoon areas of Pakistan. To make matters worse, Zardari, the absolute worse and most corrupt politician in the history of Pakistan is the head of the country.

 

Thanks friend, I heartily concur. Its amazing how the Western worldview, sprouted by some on this board, attempts distorting the simple reality by (amazingly) dredging up wars from the 70`s as proof that Pakistan has "traditionally" been unstable. The obvious inference, that of a distinct AGENDA, of US aggression, invasions, political interference and regime change, throughout Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, (and soon Iran), spreading like a cancer is nothing else but a definitive strategy for regional hegemony.

 

This is indeed a very frightening scenario to have a half of the Muslim world under perpetual instability. The US, Israel, and its allies seem to be cherishing this. Imagine a world in which all the nations of Palestine, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, and Pakistan are facing violent internal strife and continued bombing by foreign forces. There has been much written about this scenario in regional news sources, particularly Iran, Pakistan, and the Levant, yet this debate has not yet permeated Western media, or rather more likely, is being marginalized for political motives.

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The US official policy is to deal with Muslim nations as individual states, yet it seems that as in Obama's Afpak policy, they are being organized now into regional zones, and the failed policies in Afghanistan are now being exported to Pakistan. How can you treat an impoverished, war-torn nation of 32 million with a regional nuclear power of 170 million? Obama may be making his worse fear a reality, as mutual suffering and anger may force Islamic nations to organize among themselves to form a large polity to resist foreign influence and control.