Paedophiles - where do they come from?

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by gorillasgocrazy, Apr 24, 2009.

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  1. scott3x Banned Banned

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    I believe it depends on a few things; informed consent, the law, societal mores and the particulars of the case.


    I brought it up only because what he said affected my view on the issue.


    I think a better question is whether it is harmful in all circumstances.


    Actually, I did, although apparently not to your satisfaction.


    I have answered your question. If you don't like my answer, I'm ok with that.


    Firstly, I am not 'proud' per se. I simply don't always agree with the majority. I prefer using logic to a 'follow the crowd' mentality, that's all.

    Secondly, I am not 'worming' my way out of anything. If you don't understand my answer, then specify what about it you don't understand.
     
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  3. takandjive Killer Queen Registered Senior Member

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    Scott, try a "yes" or "no" answer. It's that kind of question. Lucy, why don't you repost those questions very clearly. Then I'll answer, so Scott can see a clear model. Okay?
     
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  5. Bells Staff Member

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    But she knew it was a crime. So what does that say of her responsibility?

    Society was not the only thing that placed roadblocks in their way. She was married with children, one around the same age as the boy she sexually desired and apparently loved. Are you saying that when you fall in love, you should abdicate from your own responsibilities to your husband, children, employment and the law to follow your desires? How responsible was she towards her small children when she acted illegally in having sex with her 13 year old student? How responsible was she towards her position by having sex with a 13 year old student?

    Which she knew she would be if she acted on her desires. So in a way, she did leave him.

    I don't think she was in jail when he was caught drink driving. So how responsible was he when he did it? What example is he setting for his daughters? How is he teaching his children to be responsible?

    Don't you mean that if you fall in love and lust after another, a child in this case, you can leave your husband and children to act upon that lust and desire?

    Is that responsibility? What message do you she sent to her children in regards to 'responsibility' when she started having sex with a 13 year old boy?

    What responsibility do you think she sent to her children when she knowingly and willingly broke the law?

    I suspect being left to raise two small children when he himself was a child may have stunted his prospects somewhat. Having to turn to his mother to raise his children because he was unable to due to his age and the fact that he wasn't even legally allowed to work would also be a bit of a downer, don't you think?

    Of course you do.

    Society didn't mess it up. She did when she knowingly and willingly broke the law when she had sex with him.
     
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  7. scott3x Banned Banned

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    Here's the wiki review of it:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmful_to_Minors


    I don't think the topic is really all that different; it all has to do with when an individual is considered old enough to do various things; someone hear mentioned children aren't allowed to go to the army until a certain age as well; is it 18? Anyway, what I love about the term minor is that it's so ambiguous; it highlights my point. A minor is someone who is below the age of consent; it varies from state to state and from country to country. I personally believe that we should base sexual permissions on knowledge, not something as arbitrary as a certain age. There are some physical size limitations that must be taken into account when dealing with certain sexual interactions, but there are many sexual interactions that are unnafected by size constraints.


    I would contend that some people also don't realize when no one is being taken advantage of

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    . I think that separating lovers is something that should be considered cautiously, not something that should be arbitrarily decided based upon a certain age differential.
     
  8. scott3x Banned Banned

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    No. However, that's not the only definition of child. If everyone would settle on it, it would be wonderful, but I doubt that it will happen soon.
     
  9. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    Scott: believe it depends on a few things; informed consent, the law, societal mores and the particulars of the case.

    Well Scott a child cannot consent and we know what the law and society says. AGAIN I ask you

    if a parent for example allows an adult to have sex with a child under 12 its ok?

    You have opinions right? I mean you can answer for yourself without knowing about the law and society? I know I could.

    Scott: I brought it up only because what he said affected my view on the issue.

    You didn't tell me your views so AGAIN I ask you

    Do you need a law to tell you its wrong to have sex with a child under the age of 12?

    Scott: I think a better question is whether it is harmful in all circumstances.

    When can it not be harmful to fondle or engage in oral sex with a child under 12?

    Scott:I have answered your question. If you don't like my answer, I'm ok with that

    No you didn't. If you said yes I think oral sex with a child under 12 is ok or no I don't think oral sex with a child...sorry 'minor' under 12 is ok. That would be an answer. All you've done is take long round about ways of skirting a straight answer and I know you are quite confident of your beliefs so I am sure you will just answer the question.

    Scott: Firstly, I am not 'proud' per se.
    Secondly, I am not 'worming' my way out of anything. If you don't understand my answer, then specify what about it you don't understand.

    To be a maverick isn't to be proud it simply means someone who exhibits independence of thought and action. I cannot say I don't understand or understand your answer when you simply don't seem to know how to answer these questions. I am not asking you about what society things, about social mores or laws, I am simply asking what YOU think:

    Do you need a law to tell you its wrong to have sex with a child under the age of 12?

    The others are of course above. Its not a big deal. Any member here could simply give an answer. For someone who reads so many books on this issue and who has so much to say about should be able to answer these very simple questions.

    So I wait for your response.
     
  10. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    Do you need a law to tell you its wrong to have sex with a child under the age of 12?

    Do you see sex with children under the age of 12 as being 'the thing' in the future? A kind of sexual revolution?

    If a kiss is different so what about oral sex performed on an adult? Fondling? All at the age of 9.

    When can it not be harmful to fondle or engage in oral sex with a child under 12?
     
  11. scott3x Banned Banned

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    Did you read the post before the one you're responding to here? I'll quote the relevant section, with the most important part in bold:

     
  12. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    Post #106 was the last post I have posted for you.
     
  13. scott3x Banned Banned

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    Oh, I know that that's the type of answer she wants. But I don't believe that the correct answer is a yes or a no, which is why I didn't answer it in that way. Again, if you or Lucy don't understand my answer, feel free to ask me questions concerning it.


    tak, while you may believe that the question should be answered with 'yes' or 'no', this doesn't mean that that either of those are, in fact, the right answer. However, if you were to answer the question in such a fashion, perhaps I might be inspired to comment on it. Also, if you were to elaborate on your 'yes' or 'no' answer, it might be beneficial in explaining your stance a bit more and I may be able to comment on your answer.
     
  14. takandjive Killer Queen Registered Senior Member

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    Lucy: Do you need a law to tell you its wrong to have sex with a child under the age of 12?

    Tak: No. The lack of maturity tells me not to have sex with them.

    Lucy: Do you see sex with children under the age of 12 as being 'the thing' in the future? A kind of sexual revolution?

    Tak: No. I think you might see a greater acceptance of teenagers being sexually active with each other and not being ashamed, and that would be a sexual revolution. I think it would be a good one.

    Lucy: If a kiss is different so what about oral sex performed on an adult? Fondling? All at the age of 9.

    Tak: There's nothing different because I don't think a child knows how to handle sexual boundaries. That's why same age peer sexuality is so important. We need to learn from our equals how to respect their limits and enforce ours. That's hard with an authority figure.

    Lucy: When can it not be harmful to fondle or engage in oral sex with a child under 12?

    Tak: I can't see a time when it wouldn't be.

    Your turn, Scott.
     
  15. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    We've already done this topic to death. The issue with pedophilia is harm to the child victims. See my formal debate with another poster who claimed that children are not harmed by child sexual abuse, here:

    [thread=90901]Debate: pedophilia is pseudoscience[/thread]

    And instead of scott3x repeating everything he said last time about how he thinks it is ok for adults to have sex with children, just review the discussion here:

    [thread=90940]Discussion[/thread]

    I point out that this thread was closed for a reason, and I urge posters not to cover the same ground again in the current thread, or it also will be closed.
     
  16. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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  17. Bells Staff Member

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    The page comes up with "Page load error" for me Lucy.
     
  18. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    There is no right or wrong answer Scott there is only what you think and believe. Yet you couldn't come out in the open with those answers. They are simple yes or no with an elaboration or explanation here and there. And I am not expecting anything but an answer and its quite interesting that you either

    A. Cannot do that

    or

    B. Are afraid to

    I think the answers are both A & B.

    I mean how can you implicate yourself with an open and honest answer

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  19. scott3x Banned Banned

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    Are you sure? Even if this was the case, however, I would contend that it was only a legal crime, not a moral crime.


    What I'd really like to hear is why she decided to do it. Perhaps it wasn't exactly planned the first time and the idea of consequences was poorly known but the second time... Anyway, as I have mentioned before, her approach is not mine. When it comes to the law, I prefer to disagree with it then break it. But then, she hasn't broken it in a while either, I believe; she did it with the guy she later married and hasn't done it since.


    Did she? I believe I heard that her husband moved away and obtained sole custody, but I'm not sure.


    She did what she felt was best at the time. To learn more of her reasoning, we'd probably have to read her book.


    Your fancy footwork doesn't fool me. You can't deny that society is the one who took her away from him. And as soon as she was released, she made a particular point of seeing him again -despite- society not allowing her to.


    I think a better question is, why did he do it? Were the societal pressures of having a taboo relationship with his teacher a factor? Also, what example is society setting by removing a lover simply because they don't fit arbitrary criteria?



    I see that you have a hard time accepting the idea that they fell in love with each other. But honestly, I really don't think that lust would have lasted through all that they've been through.



    What message does society send to children when they teach them that sex is 'bad'? Is sex inherently bad or harmful as many schools teach? Mary Kay Letourneau is clearly an exception to the rule; most teachers don't have sex with their students. But the issues that it raised, I believe, are good ones and they are issues that I hope that their children as well as the rest of their generation deal with in a more effective manner then what I believe are the very flawed age of consent laws.


    I'm not sure how aware her children are of what she did in this regard, but assuming they do eventually find out about it, I believe it will give them something to think about atleast.


    His parents helped out, but if the mother of those children had been around to care for them as well, things may have been easier.


    I really don't know. Like I said, I haven't read his book. All I know is that he apparently couldn't wait to get in the sack with Mary Kay Letourneau again and did so shortly after Mary was out of probation.


    You may believe this, but I don't see evidence to back up your case.
     
  20. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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  21. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    Yes James, I think we cover the ground with him for a reason

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    Why is it no matter how we ask it we cannot get an honest answer from him? Obviously the subject has some import for him, kind of like the mid-east situation is for SAM
     
  22. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    Hey talkandjive, the members name was ancientregime, the old peado defender. Anyway the second entry on James post is the link to that oh so abstract, undefined and objective discussion

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    If I were a mom I would yank my kid off of this site sooner than they could say 'oh mom'.
     
  23. Bells Staff Member

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    I am watching it now. I wonder if she has told her 8 year old daughter that she had sex with her daddy when her daddy was 12 years of age and she was 34? I wonder whether he has told their 8 year old daughter the truth of their relationship? Would they, as the girl's parents, be open to their 12 year old daughter having sex with a 34 year old man?

    What strikes me the most about her is her immaturity. She just seems immature to me. I kept expecting her to say "like".
     
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