Owning Pets

Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by (Q), Dec 12, 2009.

  1. John99 Banned Banned

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    i typed the wrong word, i know they are not carnivores. I didnt know that pigs would attack and eat a human though. Except for wild boars.
     
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  3. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    pigs are a great way of disposing of a murder victim.
     
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  5. John99 Banned Banned

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    Even still, pigs that have been domesticated are not stalkers. Meaning they do not stalk prey. Try and do that with a lion or tiger on a large scale.
     
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  7. ogdred Registered Senior Member

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    Justification for what? Farming livestock for use in pet foods? That obviously makes no sense, and is not in any way what I've suggested.

    It would simply make you consistent. If you actually stand by this conviction of yours habitually, through veganism and non-participation in pet ownership, then I salute you (and your friends over at P.E.T.A.).

    I do suspect, however, that were you this committed you'd have mentioned it without me having to coax it out of you

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    .
     
  8. John99 Banned Banned

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    i remember hearing that now. these things are just preferences, if an animal is hungry it can be very versatile in what it eats. A good example is the black bear and brown bear. The fact that balck bears are kind of large makes them, kind of, dangerous but the fact that brown bears really do want to eat you makes them VERY dangerous.
     
  9. John99 Banned Banned

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  10. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    john, what does any of that have to do with owning a pet?
     
  11. John99 Banned Banned

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    I didnt bring up the pigs and chickens but pets are animals.
     
  12. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    Animals are and have been kept for other purposes too, including riding, draft, hunting, herding, entertainment, traction (pulling plows, turning mills), protection (of humans, livestock and property).
    Dude, you've now graduated into Sam's category of arguing disingenuously. There's no way you're not well-enough informed to be aware of the vegetarian pet food movement.

    As I mentioned earlier, dogs have smaller brains than wolves. Maintenance of brain tissue requires a lot of protein, and dogs have adapted to a scavenger's diet with less meat than wolves get as nearly full-time predators. So it's not hard to feed them a grain- and legume-based diet. It's more difficult with cats but it can be done. In the USA there is a huge industry marketing vegetarian pet food.

    Stop trolling!
    Hell, in some European countries they feed horsemeat to people. There are still a few places on earth where people eat dog meat. I know horsemeat was a common ingredient in dog food when I was a kid; there was a brand named "Pard," and paard is the Dutch word for "horse." (Cf. German Pferd.) But today it's rare and there is a huge movement to ban it in the USA--ironically among city folk who may have never seen a horse much less been loved by one.

    All I can say is that this is merely one in a very long list of things that civilization hasn't got worked out yet. Considering that we're still killing each other, in violation of the fundamental premise of civilization itself ("You may never kill another person except in defense against a direct threat of deadly violence or something nearly as dire"), we have a long way to go on a number of issues. Looking back over the past twelve thousand years since we first began to transcend our nature as nomadic hunter-gatherers who only trusted and cared for a couple of dozen people we'd known since birth, I'm satisfied that we are making more-or-less consistent progress. I can't offer too many suggestions on how to speed it up so I settle for patience.
    Q, I told you before to dial it back. Nobody objects to a little roughhousing on a website dominated by youngsters, but you've gone over the line into sheer trolling with this series of insults. It serves no purpose except to goad others into a flame war and/or stifle the discussion.

    * * * * NOTE FROM A MODERATOR * * * *

    DIAL IT BACK PLEASE!
    That doesn't mean that we can't establish a unique relationship with them, and it doesn't mean that we can't grant them rights.

    I'm always surprised to run into Americans who have never had a loving relationship with a dog. They teach us so much about life. Every child should have one. My dog was an oasis of peace, sanity and predictable behavior in my home. He's probably the reason I didn't grow up even crazier than I did. My wife wasn't so lucky, no peace, sanity or predictable behavior. So now we have twelve dogs.
    Lions are a pack-social species like wolves, which is very unusual (perhaps unique?) among the felids. As such it is at least theoretically possible for them to bond with a pack-mate of another species and not regard it as food. Furthermore, only female lions hunt. So the possibility becomes even greater (theoretically) that a human could develop a peaceful relationsihip with a male lion, so long as the human fulfills the female lion's role and provides copious amounts of fresh meat.
    Small breeds of pigs (Vietnamese potbellies) have become popular pets in the USA. Although pigs are artiodactyls, related to cows and sheep, they have evolved into scavengers like dogs, and like dogs they probably wandered into our camps to eat the garbage. They are similar to dogs in many ways: possibly a little more intelligent, fairly easy to housebreak, gentle if treated well, even cuddly although their skin is not so pleasant to rub against.
     
  13. John99 Banned Banned

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    But are they pack social because they are carnivores? The same concept applies to the prey. The larger the number the less chance of being eaten.
     
  14. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    (Q):

    We do. There are many wildlife sanctuaries carved out for just that purpose.

    No. She likes human attention (to a certain extent - this is a cat who had early bad experiences with humans). She seeks us out when we have no food, for companionship.

    So your thread is really about people who mistreat animals, as opposed to pet owners who care for and love their pets? Ok then. Why didn't you just say so at the start?

    You're not going to get many people to argue against your point that animal cruelty is a bad thing.

    What do you do for them?
     
  15. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    (Q):

    By the way, I think I was on this ground before you.

    Do you agree with this: [enc]Intrinsic value[/enc]? See also [enc]animal rights[/enc]
     
  16. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah, right. Give it a rest, pal.

    Of course, I'm aware of those, as I'm aware of horse meat used to feed dogs. So what?

    As there is a huge industry marketing horse meat. What point are you making?

    And, somehow that justifies feeding horse meat to your pets?

    If you say so. But, it still persists, does it not?

    Yes, it is, but apparently I'm a "troll" and am "arguing disingenuously" and "not well enough informed" to have brought it up.

    You appear to settling for your own brand of justification. I get that fact that there are other problems in the world, far greater than feeding horse meat to our pets or pet ownership as dated concept. In fact, if we look at pet ownership today and compared it with the times when dogs were being bred from wolves, would we see a difference. You bet.

    When you moderators become the perfect posters here and refrain from doing the same thing, I'll abide. But, at this time, what you say is pure hypocrisy.

    Like buying a toy or game, everyone should have one. Pick one up at your local pet store so it can make its way to one of many animal shelters, or drown it in a river, or just let it go out on the street. They're disposable whenever you get bored of them or find they're too much hassle to take care of.

    Yes, good advice there, Fraggle.

    Clearly, a bias on your part for pet ownership.
     
  17. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    Where did mum get it?
     
  18. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    Oh, I see, you seem to believe wildlife sanctuaries are the same as ownin pets? Good one.


    Bad experiences with humans? NO!!! I'm shocked.

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    They are often one and the same, James. Someone who feeds horse meat to their dogs who love and care for them are part of the problem.

    Yet, animal cruelty exists in slaughtering livestock for human comsumption, the same humas who wouldn't argue that animal cruelty is a bad thing.

    I let animals live in nature rather than owning them. Simple really.

    There is a vicious cycle perpetuated by the pet industry that causes many people to buy pets, who then discard them for whatever reason. Fraggle is doing his part by perpetuating this cycle claiming every kid should have one. He is obviously oblivious to this fact, as others here are.
     
  19. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    You're barking up the wrong tree, pal. I have nothing to do with PETA and their ilk.

    It's rather irrelevant and has nothing to do with my convictions or lack thereof. You're just deflecting away from the issues.
     
  20. visceral_instinct Monkey see, monkey denigrate Valued Senior Member

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    She's beautiful!

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    What's her name?
     
  21. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    (Q):

    You suggested I should try keeping a lion as a pet, if I recall correctly. Do I need to explain to you why that might not be a good idea?

    I see you ignored my point and tried to divert the conversation to something else.

    What problem? You're changing the topic again. You initially were arguing that keeping pets is bad for the pets. Now you're arguing that the side-effects of keeping pets is bad.

    Maybe if you expressed yourself more carefully, you'd get where you're trying to go faster.

    Livestock kept for slaughter aren't pets, though, are they?

    So what's this topic about, again? Your scattergun approach isn't very helpful in making your point.

    Yes. So you've established that some people are irresponsible pet owners. It does not follow that all pet owners are irresponsible.
     
  22. nietzschefan Thread Killer Valued Senior Member

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  23. fall Registered Member

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    I dunno, I feel like a husband and wife kind of own each other... and that's not horrifying according to our culture so.
     

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