"Out of Africa" theory: a done deal

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by Fraggle Rocker, Feb 22, 2008.

  1. kmguru Staff Member

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    Are you saying we can not prove that 2+2=4?

    There is no "Proving" of any mathematical equation?

    You can not prove that electrolysis of Dihydrogen Oxide produces Hydrogen and Oxygen?
     
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  3. John99 Banned Banned

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    Tablaridm, we know that we are all human so finding likenesses would be natural. The thing that concerns me is the communal aspect of such a migration as noted by the distinct groups of humans inhabiting various regions of the earth.

    You know Dr. Lous post hit on something because what i thinkis that if this were to happen as stated in the OP there would almost certainly have been inbreeding but i dont think inbreeding alone is sufficient to sustain a thriving population of humans. EDIT: Without inbreeding the level of distinction would have been blurred along the way. We would not see such level of detail without inbreeding and i dont think inbreeding played a role in human development.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2008
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  5. kmguru Staff Member

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    That was "Journey of Man", there is a book by the author/scientist

    And non blacks can say that "the smart ones are the explorers"...would that be racist?
     
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  7. John99 Banned Banned

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    This has nothing to do with race(ism). I know i would make the same observation if Asia was the location.
     
  8. kmguru Staff Member

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    Some cultures they marry their cousins....that has not caused their culture to disappear. But In-breeding does cause problems in Louisiana. I think the percentages may be small....Humans may be somewhat immune to that...due to advanced design of the genes....
     
  9. John99 Banned Banned

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    Your jokes only prove my observations to be sound.
     
  10. tablariddim forexU2 Valued Senior Member

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    It wasn't just finding likenesses. It was DNA.
     
  11. zarlok Banned Banned

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    Math is not science. Math is "numeric/symbolic logic". Both logiic and math use axioms whch are always assumed true.

    Nope. But we assume it is true until disproven by other evidence. Will it ever be disproven? Who knows, neither you nor I.
     
  12. Dr Lou Natic Unnecessary Surgeon Registered Senior Member

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    Absolutely it would be. It would be an unnacceptable hypothesis, you would be forbidden from exploring the possibility that this was the case (and I doubt it is the case, but that's beside the point).

    I think it's complete garbage to let political correctness stand in the way of knowledge and understanding, but it definately does.
    I'm glad this little bit slipped though, I'm sure it's because white people are on the negative side of the equation, that makes it ok.
    We're allowed to scrounge up the bits and pieces which might potentially offend white people and try to get some semblance of a picture.

    An example is in this very topic, Australian aborigines have morphological characteristics which indicate they are a more primitive human design than other races. They have thick skulls that share characteristics with homo erectus and homo sapiens, indicating they represent a transitionary stage in human evolution, and are probably most like the earliest humans out of any current humans.
    They show us where humans were in their development when the first wave out of africa occurred.
    This was all evident before we knew anything about DNA, and now it's loosely being carefully and quietly confirmed, but still avoiding talking about the peoples and how they differ.
    We've had to skirt around it and try not to notice because aborigines might be offended by the implications, that is that they are less advanced versions of the human design than all other ethnicities.

    I think they could equally be proud knowing they are the original people, they could have a different perspective where they see themselves as the pioneers responsible for the greatness of humans or whatever.

    In the end it simply shouldn't be sciences responsibility to consider people's feelings, it really inhibits us from understanding things as well as we could.
     
  13. kmguru Staff Member

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    So you never heard of Axiom of Science? You did go to high school?
     
  14. Walter L. Wagner Cosmic Truth Seeker Valued Senior Member

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    What inbreeding does is it allows potentially deleterious recessive genes in the genotype to 'double up' and be expressed phenotypically. If they are fatal recessives, the off-spring dies [usually during embryonic development]. If they are non-fatal, but deleterious nonetheless, it causes the off-spring to be less than ideal.

    On occasion, a genotype's recessive, when 'doubled up' via sex, makes for a better phenotype, i.e. a stronger, healthier organism than the average ideal.

    Humans have a propensity for weeding out the deleterious double-recessives [via warfare, picking on the weaker in a tribe or clan, etc.] on their own, without requiring the environment to do so. By overproducing, but inbreeding, we've made many races of people that are likely more fit for their environment than the original population many generations back.

    Dominant genes [those expressed phenotypically while only a single gene in the genotype, or a double gene] need no such inbreeding to increase their number amongst the population, as they are selected for without the requirement of being doubled via inbreeding sex.

    Just thought we ought to know that incest per se is not necessarily bad for the species, even if considered immoral. Only when we impose the social burden of maintaining the viability of a double recessive that is deleterious does it become detrimental to the species, or the social burden of stigmatizing incestuous relationships so they are less productive to the species.

    It's quite probable that close incestuous relationships were far more common in olden days, when tribes and clans were small in number, compared to modern society in which we have far more potential mates to choose from.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2008
  15. zarlok Banned Banned

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    For about a year, then off to college. Any more stupid questions?
     
  16. LORD_VOLDEMORT Banned Banned

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    Walter is right about incest and the old days,it goes back to the ancient days going back to Egypt.Pharoahs had relations with members of the bloodline plenty of time.Tut married his half sister.They actually discovered 2 fetuses in his tomb,believe to be failed births of there daughters as a result of incest though

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  17. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    Huh??? Go back and pick any of my posts at random. I must tell the members of SciForums at least once a day that scientific theories can never be proven true, but can only be falsified. The best we can do is to establish them as "true beyond a reasonable doubt." Please desist immediately from misrepresenting me by implying that I have advocated a position opposite from the one I actually advocate.
    It is scientific theories that cannot be proven because a scientific theory predicts the behavior of the natural universe. Mathematical theories are exclusively concerned with abstractions and logic, so they can be proven. For example the principles of Riemannian geometry are true, even though we may never encounter a part of the natural universe where they apply.
    All we can do is to support the hypothesis that the electrolysis of water yields hydrogen and oxygen, by providing empirical evidence in the form of observations of the past and present behavior of the natural universe in which electrolysis of water yields hydrogen and oxygen. We can support this hypothesis even further by deriving a theory logically from these observations which explains this process in the simplest possible way. Once this hypothesis has been subject to testing and peer-review that is judged by the scientific community to be adequate for a hypothesis of this degree of extraordinariness, we judge the the probability of it being proven false to be low enough to become a theory that is integrated into the scientific canon. In legal language we now accept it as true beyond a reasonable doubt, but when speaking to laymen we settle for calling it simply true. This gets us in trouble and in my opinion is a problem with our style of discourse, because when one of our canonical theories is proven false--as happens occasionally--people jump up and say, "Aha, science is not reliable."
    He also produced a PBS special which gave an abbreviated, popularized version. I gave the URL to that in the O.P. This was brought up on the Linguistics board a few days earlier because the routes of human migration have a strong bearing on the taxonomy of language families, hypothetical superfamilies, and the controversial conjecture of the Nostratus superfamily which would include all non-African languages, descended from one common ancestral language carried out of Africa.

    Many of us watched the video on YouTube. I decided it was worth sharing this more widely on the Human Science board since, as I state in the title, it settles the controversy over our migration out of Africa. It does not prove it true, but provides enough evidence to accept it as true beyond a reasonable doubt. Henceforth any contradiction of the "out of Africa" theory can be responsibly treated an "extraordinary assertion" and must be accompanied by extraordinary evidence in order to be taken seriously.
     
  18. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    wha??? I didn't know that!
     
  19. zarlok Banned Banned

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    How do you explain this post exchange? Hardly sounds like a scietist to me, more of a pundit with a belief.
     
  20. skaught The field its covered in blood Valued Senior Member

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    First off, please to all members of this Forum, do not even engage Zarlok! Do not even acknowledge him when he says something. Every post I have seen him on he acts like some superior being who has intelligence beyond everyone else which he feels gives him carte blanche (and feel free to point out my misspelling Zarlok since you need to constantly reassure yourself that you are smart) to act like an ass! Oh wait, he probably has no life outside of sitting in front of his computer screen in a dimly lit smoky room in his moms basement that smells like BO and gas while his Mom yells at him to clean up the mess he made in the kitchen while making mac&cheese with hot dog slices and ketchup. Get a life dude. Stop trying so hard!

    Ok, so now that I got that off my chest, another interesting show I have seen is called "The Search for Adam" by National Geographic. Anyone seen it?
     
  21. zarlok Banned Banned

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    You are pretty hard on youself, what with all those angst-filled projections. That, or are you just a hypocrite who randomly capatilizes words while insulting other posters?
     
  22. kmguru Staff Member

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    I agree. I was chided and the thread closed for bringing this issue up. It seems it is a self-destructive disease of unknown etiology.



    Some people are very afraid and rightly so that they will be exploited as this has happened before.



    I believe they can be brought to our level through a change in environment. Even if such attempts are not made due to political reasons, atleast we would know where we came from and project where we are going. There is nothing to be ashamed of either way...We should be proud that with little resources and technology, our ancestors survived and evolved.



    I think as long as we do not use such research to create more prejudice, hate, exploitation - we should be OK. It is, however, the scientist's reponsibility to make sure the knowledge does not create misery to others. Do no harm.....
     
  23. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    They could argue that white people are less varied than black, genetically.

    There is no "therefore" to the inferiority. Neither is there any evidence of any particular genetic groupe of humans beign "more advanced" - they have all been evolving in parallel, as far as anyone knows.

    Those kinds of judgments would have nothing to do with any of this science.
     

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