"Out of Africa" theory: a done deal

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by Fraggle Rocker, Feb 22, 2008.

  1. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    On the Linguistics board we were recently given a homework assignment to watch the PBS Special, "The Journey of Man." It's a report (popularized of course) on an enormous study of human genetics, which solves the puzzle of the intricate relationships among all non-African peoples. Coincidentally, today's Washington Post reported (in somewhat more scientific language) on a more recent DNA study by a completely different team of scientists, which reached the same conclusion.

    It turns out that there were two waves of migration out of Africa, but they were different generations of the same people, and this is the source of much of our confusion. To confuse things further, the first wave skirted the now-underwater coast of Ice Age South Asia, looking for food in those barren times (not much rain when so much of the earth's water is locked up in glaciers), and finally ending up in Australia where there was finally food. They left genetic markers in the people in South Asia, but they're not easy to find because they were overwhelmed by the second wave, which ultimately spread out to populate the entire rest of the globe.

    Many mysteries have been solved. For example, the reason it took Homo sapiens so long to populate Europe was that they did not come through Turkey, as we assumed, but rather via a long backtracking route that went through Central Asia and then came back at it from Siberia.

    The Post article is a little more detailed, and Google will give you other sources. But the TV show, predictably, had some poignant scenes. The Navajo are a proud people--one of very few American Indian tribes to not just survive but thrive and retain its identity--who have lived on their land for a long time and have rich legends about their creation in that place. The scientist quietly handed them a sheaf of photographs of members of the Chukchi people in Asia, who he identified as the remnants of the ancestors of the Native Americans who chose not to make the migration.

    The Indians looked at the photos and began muttering, "This guy looks just like Uncle Harry," and, "That one could be Cousin Willie."

    After a reflective pause, one of them looked into the camera and said, "We really are all brothers, aren't we?"
     
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  3. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    this is what I found most interesting. I don't understand why its so diverse. More people to start with??

    ....The two studies also show that Africans have the most diverse DNA, and the fewest potentially harmful genetic mutations.

    One of the studies shows European-Americans have more small mutations, while the others show Native Americans, Polynesians and others who populated Australia and Oceania have more big genetic changes.....
     
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  5. kmguru Staff Member

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    The difference could be 20,000 years apart or something like that...
     
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  7. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    Basically, yes. It was a very small group who made the migration out of Africa, IIRC less than 100. Even if it was 500 they were all from the same tribe and they left 99% of Africa's genetic diversity behind them. But the people who stayed in Africa still have it.

    It was even worse in America. I think he said that at one point in their arduous southward trek along the eastern side of the Rockies during the Ice Age--the only ice-free corridor--the entire population was reduced to 18 people.
     
  8. John99 Banned Banned

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    This is fascinating.

    When the first wave occurred what did the humans in Africa look like and were the ones who left exactly the same?
     
  9. John99 Banned Banned

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    To add to that, are there any Africans (ones living in Africa) who look like Central Asians?

    Edit: Not central asians who may have migrated to Africa, i mean pockets of people with central asian features native to africa.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2008
  10. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    All we've got for evidence is the San (or Bushmen) tribe who are the descendants of those people. After 50,000 years their DNA has mutated too, so there's no way we can tell how much the contemporary San look like their ancestors.
    The San are a fairly small tribe with a narrow genotype. They don't have a lot of diversity. The Navajo saw resemblances to the Chukchi because they're only separated by about 15,000 years. The Cental Asians are separated from the San by 50,000 years. That leaves too much time for mutation and genetic drift to run rampant.

    One thing is for sure, the San don't look very much like any other contemporary Africans.
     
  11. John99 Banned Banned

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    So the the present Asians left before their features changed or did they change after they left?
     
  12. LORD_VOLDEMORT Banned Banned

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    Fraggle now you know Zahi Hawass would not take lightly to this.Afterall i do get a kick out his facial reconstructions of King tut,while seeing no absolute connection to how the Egyptians themselves portrayed him.(That being if you know what i mean}
     
  13. LORD_VOLDEMORT Banned Banned

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    I've read Black sudanese have eyes similar to asians.

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    Alek Bek for example?
     
  14. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    Well, many of the ethnic groups of North Africa are not "African" in the historical ethnic sense. Since the diaspora(s) there has been considerable migration back and forth between Asia Minor and North Africa. Today's Egyptians have only a slight relationship to the Ancient Egyptians and are in fact predominantly the descendants of Arab occupiers. The Moors have Arab ancestors too. But even the Ancient Egyptians were related to the people of Asia Minor, as are the Cushitic people, which covers a lot of the northeastern part of the continent. The Afro-Asiatic language family includes, among many others, Ancient Egyptian, Coptic and Amharic as well as the prolific Hamito-Semitic group.

    That entire region has been a Melting Pot for thousands of years.

    The articles I've seen did not specifically mention the peoples of the Sudan and Somalia, but sitting there next to Egypt and Ethiopia I'm sure they share as much or more DNA with the Eurasians than with "sub-Saharan" Africans.
     
  15. LORD_VOLDEMORT Banned Banned

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    Very true,todays egyptians are a big mixture of the many races that conquered egypt most recently the arabic,back say a 1000 years ago? However i believe in southern egypt you have a great percentage of egyptians that have obvious blood relations going back to the pharoah days.I love seeing those egyptians,its just amazing to see the actual look of there original inhabitants of egypt clear on there faces

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    I usually read the ANCIENT EGYPTIAN forums on the egyptsearch.com messageboard.Very informative.I also know about the head of egyptian antiquities Zahi Hawass denial of the look regarding the original inhabitants of Egypt.How he banned Joanne Fletcher for the discovery of The mummy that was supposely Nefertiti,being outraged that the reconstruction of the mummy had this outlook

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    And his recent as of last year or before reconstruction of Tuts mummy which has no direct similarities to the way the egyptians presented his look

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    I also wanted a big movie depicting the story of the pharoahs,depicting black actors to give a realistic approach.A movie directed by spielberg,yet with Hawass in power i was told he has rejected suggestions from certain film directors regarding this.Denial stinks.

    Didnt the original egyptians trace there ancestry to the "LAND OF PUNT" which is present day Ethiopia?
     
  16. John99 Banned Banned

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    Just say we dont know. What would be the harm in that?
     
  17. LORD_VOLDEMORT Banned Banned

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    We dont know what?
     
  18. John99 Banned Banned

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    How humans populated the Earth.
     
  19. kmguru Staff Member

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    God created humans and populated them using transmat beams....would that work?

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    Seriously, science works by coming up with a decent theory until someone else comes up with a stronger theory.

    Religion works by the prophet coming up with a vision and followers sticking to it for eternity!

    Which one you want - that will define which forum you go to....

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  20. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    The harm would be that it's a lie. We have mountains of very detailed evidence, much of it was posted right here.
     
  21. zarlok Banned Banned

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    Actually, it sarts wiith empiricism, then inductive reasoning, which then forms a hypothesis, which we then test ad infinitum via deductive reasoning. When it fails, we go back to inductive reasoning. The important thing to note is that because of this skeptical cycle, we never actually prove anything, only disprove.

    Edit: and that goes double for you, Fraggle.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2008
  22. tablariddim forexU2 Valued Senior Member

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    The thing I saw on Discovery, or maybe it was National Geographic, showed a cross section of the present day San people having a resemblance to Asians, Europeans and black Africans; the gist of it was that they are the ancestors of all present day humans.
     
  23. Dr Lou Natic Unnecessary Surgeon Registered Senior Member

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    So basically black supremacists could argue we're all inbred and therefore inferior?
    I thought potentially offensive discoveries were usually shunned by the scientific community?
     

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