Origin of humans on the Earth

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by Saint, Dec 18, 2019.

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  1. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Saint:

    Anything is possible, but do you have any evidence that anybody has bullshitted, fabricated data or falsified the age of the Earth or fossils, or whatever it is you're thinking of?

    Scientists have been dating things for centuries now. Do you think there's a multi-generational bullshit conspiracy going on or something?

    Here's an idea: why don't you learn how dating is done, and try it yourself?

    See, the beauty of science is that it's mostly public information. The methods and details are all published and available, so you can confirm or refute the results yourself if you're motivated enough. At a lower cost, you can at least consult the literature and see if there's any evidence of fraud or inconsistency.

    What texts have you read so far about radioactive dating?

    Because transformation of an ape-like species into the human species was a one-off accident of evolution, just like every other speciation event.

    Human beings are not descended from modern apes. Modern apes and humans share a common ancestor species.

    You might ask why modern apes are not still evolving. The answer is: they are, and so are human beings. Evolution is slow for hominids, mostly because out lifespans are long and our rate of reproduction is slow (only one generation every 25 years or so!)

    Science doesn't care what you think is funny.

    You are posting in one of our Science subforums. Claims like this one need to be supported with appropriate evidence.

    Please support your argument, or retract your claim. Citing one example of a biology book that teaches superstition will be sufficient, for starters. Over to you.
     
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  3. Bells Staff Member

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    Transformed?

    Do you think an ape will simply lose it's body hair and suddenly "transform" into a human being?

    Why do you think they need to evolve into humans? Do you think that is the only thing they can evolve into in the future?

    And yet, here you are...

    To you, yes. To everyone else, no.

    As James noted, please provide proof of this ridiculous claim.
     
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  5. Yazata Valued Senior Member

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    True. But it's probably a mistake to mention religion in a thread like this since the word will make atheist knees jerk.

    Carbon 14 isn't particularly useful in paleontology, because its half-life is too short. It only produces halfway credible numbers out to about 75,000 years ago. So it's more often used in archaeology than in evolutionary biology. There are other longer-lived isotopes that are used in radiometric dating, but they have their own difficulties.

    That's the thing, all of the typical dating methods have their own weaknesses.

    Science in most of its aspects is kind of like a photograph. Looked at from a distance, the way laypeople do, it looks great: clear and distinct. But the closer you look at it the more it dissolves into pixels, as experimental procedures, data interpretation issues and all of the implicit assumptions being baked into the analysis from the beginning threaten to overwhelm the big-picture conclusions.

    Personally, I'm reasonably confident that taken together the various methods do give us a fairly reliable, if exceedingly rough, picture. But it's still very much a work in progress.

    They talk about it a lot, but those discussions are usually in the professional literature. I get the impression that popular science writers don't like to write about the complexities, in part because they fear that they will lose their lay readers and sell fewer books, and in part because they fear that the creationists will make rhetorical use of the many uncertainties. So once again, we have laypeople being led to believe that scientists have things nailed down a lot more securely than they really do.

    I'm not a scientist (my interests lie more in the philosophy of science, particularly biology) but here's a beginning...

    On relative and absolute dating of rocks using geological methods

    https://www.nature.com/scitable/kno...and-fossils-using-geologic-methods-107924044/

    Wikipedia on radiometric dating of rocks

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiometric_dating

    Detailed discussion of geological dating

    http://www.timetree.org/public/data/pdf/Gradstein2009Chap03.pdf

    And a couple of interesting surveys of how biologists are currently assigning a timescale to the history of life, mostly with molecular clocks, and the difficulties and uncertainties associated with it.

    http://www.hedgeslab.org/pubs/210.pdf

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3395881/
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2019
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  7. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

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    What do you do if they're also a master of assassins?
     
  8. geordief Valued Senior Member

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  9. geordief Valued Senior Member

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  10. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    Meh. To a cyborg, meatware falls into two categories: expandable and expendable.
    that one
     
  11. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    Baby cheeses magic monkey quick change artist

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    (picture note, i was going to post a very old cartoon of an organ grinder & monkey and then found this picture which looks quite outstanding artistry, the artist has managed to bring the 2 people to life)

    https://www.nationalgeographic.com/culture/2019/08/coopers-landing-idaho-site-americas-oldest/
    Good things take time
     
  12. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    ... fyi
    i think saint has elucidated moral principals of a catholic neo-modernist tea-party-esque type.

    fairly mainstream for semi middle class south east asian
    modern tech
    old worldy morals & culture, pushed by tech, confused by science
    conflicted by cultural clashes between indigenous culture and old worldy church closed minded teaching.
    also affected by the high rate of corruption, crime & lack of security that south east asia has tends to force many people to take on that new-york(has that changed in the last 15 years?) don't stop don't ask type of insular anti socialisation concept around fear and concepts of social morality like crime & corruption.

    south east asia produces a very odd political voter
    they are somewhat old worldy semi conservative religious with modern new age social acclimatization, however they fluctuate from one person to the next by extremes over social-moral dictatorship
    some still promote capital punishment
    some promote social liberal equality
    the richer more middle class are somewhat self isolated from poverty and political issues.
    politics because it is so corrupt
    poverty because it is so terribly poor

    that process of intellectual and emotional development through teen age years.. in an isolating environment tends to breed a sense of alarmist self indignation toward non conformist exterior aspects.
    this rebounds to form a more thicker wall between the self and the outside world.
    very human. nothing abnormal really.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2019
  13. Saint Valued Senior Member

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    Why some apes still remain as apes?
    Is there any half ape half human being?
     
  14. Saint Valued Senior Member

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    why not biologist do some experiments in lab, to demonstrate how single cell life can transform into multi cell life spontaneously?
     
  15. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    So much wrong with the question but shall try to tease out a answer

    First Humans ARE apes

    Next Apes are a different TYPE of ape

    Next the Human ape and Ape ape split long time ago going different routes along the Evolution Highway

    Next evolution does not have a end game. Driven by changing conditions and random mutations DNA puts out life forms best suited (or better suited) to the the conditions. Those BEST suited are better suited for reproduction thus strengthening their DNA

    Not sure if any work is being done on this

    I am sure there is, even if only on a theoretical basis

    If on a physical basis I would imagine such a experiment would be difficult to setup

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  16. Bells Staff Member

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    Frankly, I do not know if this is just stupidity or trolling.

    Why would today's apes evolve into humans?

    Have we evolved into something else because we are also apes? No, we have not.

    Today's apes and humans diverged well before our ancestors walked on two legs. We are related, but not closely related enough that today's apes would somehow or other become "humans". If they did evolve into hominids, they would be different to us homo sapiens, because again, we diverged in the family tree a long time ago.

    Look in the mirror. You are the product of that from millions of years ago.
     
  17. Saint Valued Senior Member

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    Evolutionists BELIEVE in evolution and scorn at religious believers.
    Funny?
     
  18. Bells Staff Member

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    This is a science forum.

    Perhaps you should take your ridiculous opinions to a more appropriate website.

    And evolution is not a religion that one believes in.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_as_fact_and_theory

    And scorn?

    I don't think that's a strong enough word..

    I show disgust that they spread their misinformation and ask stupid questions (such as "Why some apes still remain as apes? Is there any half ape half human being?") because they are stupid enough to think it's a 'gotcha moment' when all it does show is a complete lack of education, awareness, understanding and reason.

    The reason I show disgust is because this can be remedied. But people such as yourself refuse to do so. Hell, you cannot even provide a coherent argument against evolution and instead rely on the dumbass trope about 'why aren't apes evolving into humans' while ignoring the fact that humans are apes.. As I said, people such as yourself think you are asking a clever question with those types of questions when all it does show is that you lack education, awareness, understanding and reason. You haven't stymied anyone. You have just outed yourself as ignorant.
     
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  19. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    oh madam yee jest in such hoity revelry
    i do declare you will be the science to my religion should a funny bone ever be found

    what on earth do all the little wimmin do when all the science is going on ?
    some edumication fa dem masses

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    did you ask a question about bananascience ?

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    Last edited: Dec 31, 2019
  20. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    who do you think is delivering your babies & doing the brain surgery ?
    they hate science just as much as you do.
     
  21. Bells Staff Member

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    Please start making sense..
     
  22. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    BELIEVE due to the preponderance of evidence

    Religious beliefs have no evidence, rely on faith and a 2,000 year old book of questionable fairy tales

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  23. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    comprised from 7 different versions
    converted 14 times from another language

    or similar numbers

    what is deemed as the modern bible that relates to Jesus is most likely to be a re-written version of something that is considerably older.
    jesus being someone who was placed into the modern bible which was copied from the old versions amalgamated into one single book
    however that truth is extremely inconvenient for many people
    ... i did spend a certain amount of effort some years back trying to track down the origin of primary biblical ideology, it appeared to pre-date many things and appeared in various other civilizations, while i wish no ideological(or physical or emotional) malice on Christians
    it did appear to me that the modern bible is more so a collection of storys of moral ideals collected from verbal and written storys dating back some 4000 years or soo
    so tenets of the christian spirit hold true for well over 2000 years...
    not many years ago having your own personal slave and using children as sex slaves was perfectly legitimate.
    did humans evolve ?
    can we see evolution of humans ?
    i certainly would like to think so
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2019
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