Organic Computers

Discussion in 'Intelligence & Machines' started by kmguru, Apr 10, 2014.

  1. kmguru Staff Member

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    We need to discuss where we are and how we can move quickly in to building and using Organic Computers. Germans are good at it...perhaps may methods and food and development and protein management etc....So, smart ones let us show many methods and how can we go...

    I could get funds to design new systems if possible...
     
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  3. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

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    How about starting by describing precisely what an "organic computer" is.
     
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  5. Enmos Staff Member

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  7. Aqueous Id flat Earth skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    This was a 2004 study involving the connection of living brain "tissue" to a PC running an F-22 flight simulator. I have some related knowledge of this from development work in simulators for two predecessor aircraft, as well as academic work in pattern recognition systems, with some practical knowledge of artificial neural networks. I have have only now started to read the paper (why are people so afraid of dating their material?) but my initial reaction is puzzlement.

    I understand how trainable systems work, but I fail to understand how it's been applied here. I'm still reading, and I need more information before commenting further. Unfortunately the ScienceDaily makes it sound a little like magic.

    Excellent thought-provoking cite, Enmos. Living trainable cells is also what I assumed kmguru had in mind.
     
  8. kmguru Staff Member

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  9. kmguru Staff Member

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  10. leopold Valued Senior Member

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    i think an organic computer will be nothing more than a novelty item.
    investment should be made in "growing" individual organs and how you can graft them to metal and other material.
    this will open the door to all kinds of uses.
     
  11. Heranion Registered Member

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    Things that can be understood by 'organic computers'

    - Wetware computers (artificially constructed brains from actual neurons / neural tissue, capable of computing)
    - Computers based on polymeric organic semiconductors
    - Chemical computers of organic material (semi-solid chemical soup, allowing data flow through use of chemical concentrations and waves instead of logic gates and bit-flow)
    - DNA computers (as described in the linked article by kmguru)
    - Genetic algorithm models (a heuristic model based on biological evolution, therefore organic in the sense of 'living', closely linked to artificial intelligence studies
    - Autistic savants (I couldn't resist)

    There must be more, but I'd like to know where you want to go with all this, kmguru?
     
  12. kmguru Staff Member

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    I have been working on Artificial Intelligence since 2002. What I found is that for large and complex systems (can not say who is the client) I was having difficulty making it go, even though I can work with a $2 Billion system. The computation would not be fast on complex structures.

    Then I remembered that Organic Computer is the best way.

    Now, I am working with others to do space crafts for 100 light year travel. It will take about 120 years. But we have to start the process somewhere. The system would need many things and hopefully the AI would be powerful enough to find certain energy solutions and EM based solutions, quantum Communications etc....

    Then we can get the hell out of here before a 30,000 year ice age....(there is no alternative).Most of the people will die...and comeback after the ice age for the next set of civilization say 70,000 years ahead....
     
  13. Enmos Staff Member

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    ...

    Um.. ok
     
  14. wellwisher Banned Banned

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    Organic computers, like the brain, makes use of the natural binary that exists within the hydrogen bonding of water. There are two distinct bonding states, one based on dipoles and other on electron sharing. The result of the water binary is fluid state memory, instead of solid state memory. The fluid state brings some unique properties to the table than are not possible, in the solid state.

    The liquid state is different from the solid state in that a solid cannot be under pressure and tension at the same time and maintain a steady state. We cannot push and pull a solid block of wood, and have it remain stationary. This anomaly can occur in the liquid state because of a distinction between the macro and micro states in a liquid. The macro state can be under pressure, while the micro can feel tension.

    What is useful about this is, liquid/water based memory is not just electromagnetically activated, like solid memory, but can also make use of other parameters like pressure, tension, entropy and energy to gain others degrees of freedom. Below is a schematic of an osmotic device. In the right side picture, the water is at steady state and can move freely across the membrane in both directions, even with a pressure head on the left and tension on the right. What is balancing these opposing forces, is entropy. The solid state does not offer the atomic mobility needed.

    For example, in the right diagram, if I add pressure to left side of the apparatus, I can push the water back to the right (reverse osmosis). This is the direction of lowering entropy, causing the liquid memory to become more ordered. If we release the pressure the liquid memory will randomize under the potential of entropy. This is all controlled by pressure and tension; membranes and selective transport. This is like silicon memory with a variable switch instead of just on-off, allowing hardware to act like software. With solid state memory software becomes the fluid state.

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  15. kmguru Staff Member

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    Very nice. Thank you. there are two areas that I am thinking about. First, water based systems rather than silicon (or other items) based liquid. Second - what if we add organic items as databases to the organic system...would that help?

    My thinking is the value each organic cells can make in an analog structure such that one cell can have multiple values depending on the inputs and chemical structure to improve the computation capability....

    Just to know various parameters to improve Organic functions that also can have various other I/O units including inorganic systems.....

    Thank you again...
     
  16. quinnsong Valued Senior Member

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    :scratchin::scratchin:
    Is it cold in here or is it just me?
     
  17. wellwisher Banned Banned

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    The binary within liquid water, is associated with hydrogen bonding structure within water, which is very loose and reversible. The H2O molecule in the liquid state only lasts a millisecond before it swaps hydrogen completely within the liquid matrix.

    The organic aspects of cells and the brain act upon the water matrix in a way, loosely similar to computer acting upon liquid crystals. These both cause orientation within the liquid matrix. This, in turn, offers capacitance to the organic, since water is the continuous phase. It appears that consciousness is actually in the water reflection, and not the organics, although the organics induce the water.

    If we mix water and oil these two will separate, to minimize the energy within surface tension. In terms of the organic brain and its water, the water is induced to reflect the organics, and in doing so, results in some surface tension (water-oil). Relate to pure water, this is not at minimal potential. Although induced by the organic to be higher in potential, the water will attempt to lower the potential; pathways.

    Consciousness lies within the aqueous binary flux; fluid-ware. The brain is hardware, firmware, software and finally fluid-ware in the water, where the programs of consciousness are based on weak inductions that can't reach steady state, yet these binary inductions contain the reflections of our organic memory within a fluid binary lowering potential.
     
  18. origin Trump is the best argument against a democracy. Valued Senior Member

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    Edit: post deleted.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2014
  19. Arne Saknussemm trying to figure it all out Valued Senior Member

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    I think I got it. Is this kind of what you mean?

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  20. wellwisher Banned Banned

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    Along those lines is this;
    http://www1.lsbu.ac.uk/water/memory.html

    Normally the average H2O molecule lasts about 1 millisecond before it has new hydrogen atoms. The hydrogen bonding is even shorter lived between water molecules. The impact of chemicals, like ethanol, is to make the hydrogen bonding in water linger longer than in pure water, allowing hydrogen bonding structuring to remain longer; liquid memory. In the brain, dilute concentrations of neural chemicals are added to the cerebral spinal fluid to help water linger. I would guess alcohol, slows our reflex reactions, due to our water/liquid memory not erasing as fast due the lingering hydrogen bonding within the fluid memory.

     
  21. Andrus Registered Member

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    I guess, it further proves that today's digital hardware will never be a match to organic computers (nor our brains).

    It also makes me wonder which branch will move faster in near future:
    a) Artificial Intelligence within human-constructed organic computers.
    b) Human/Animal Intelligence already available in real brains but connected to machines.
     
  22. leopold Valued Senior Member

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    i've thought about this.
    i believe we should bioengineer some type of plant that metabolize "space radiation" instead of sunlight.
    a "biomechanical suit" would convert this energy into something the spacefarers could use.
    hmmm . . . biomechanical suit, i wonder where i heard that.

    www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?50962-energy-from-blood&highlight=energy from blood
     
  23. kmguru Staff Member

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    How much space radiation is there? Is that the EMF spectrum you are talking about? and what materials would work?...Thanks...
     

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