Ore. School Board Votes to Allow Staff to Pack Heat at School

Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by arauca, Oct 27, 2013.

  1. arauca Banned Banned

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    God is out of school , guns are in.

    A school board in St. Helens, Ore., voted to allow teachers and staff to pack heat on school grounds, an official said.

    St. Helens School Board chairman Marshall Porter told ABCNews.com that the board lifted a ban that prevented school employees from carrying guns on campus with concealed weapons permits on Wednesday.

    "The current law in Oregon allows for anybody to concealed carry on school grounds," he said. "To exclude our staff seems like they're being punished. They should have a right to protect themselves if they so choose."

    The repeal affects the seven schools within the St. Helens School District, including two elementary schools, one middle school, one high school and three alternative schools, Porter said.

    Porter said he voted to repeal the gun ban to allow adults to protect children if confronted with a school shooting crisis.

    "If [staff members] were faced with a horrific choice, if they had to defend themselves against a kid -- which has been the thing -- I think it would be a hard decision for them, one that they would educate themselves on," he said. "I do believe we're talking about educators, people who have the interest of the children in mind."

    Porter said he did not have an opinion on whether schools would be safer if teachers carried weapons in light of recent school shootings.

    The school board voted 4-1 to allow teachers to carry weapons with a permit on campus, Porter said.

    "I have my kids in there. If there was a chance that something was to happen, and there's a chance that a teacher might be able to protect them, I'm fine with that," school board member Kellie Smith told ABC News' Portland affiliate KATU-TV.

    The board did not receive input from teachers in the district as to their feelings on the repeal, Porter said. While the teachers completed a survey, it was not presented to the board members.

    Since the vote, only one parent has contacted Porter about their dissatisfaction with the result, he said.

    "I've had more parents email me saying that they approve of our decision than not," Porter said.
    "I don't believe we're safe or less safe," he said. "We had a school without this policy. We were perfectly safe.
    The move to repeal the weapons ban was less controversial than the vote to bring back school sports at the district's middle school, which took place at the same time, Porter said.

    St. Helens School District Superintendent Mark Davalos told the South County Spotlight that while he didn't "disagree with constitutional rights," "this is a school, and our interests are what's best for the kids."
    http://news.yahoo.com/ore-school-bo...pack-heat-013617569--abc-news-topstories.html
     
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  3. Mazulu Banned Banned

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    I'm glad to hear it. Allowing teachers to carry firearms might save lives.
     
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  5. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    All mass shooting are caused by people not having enough guns.

    Take the Aurora cinema shooting.
    What if there had been a gun under every seat, loaded and ready to shoot?
    It never would have happened.

    Liberals like Obama would never allow it though,
    because they hate guns and freedom.
     
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  7. arauca Banned Banned

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    Are you promoting the early American western move ?
     
  8. wellwisher Banned Banned

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    Gun control laws would be analogous to overusing anti-bacterial products to kills germs. The good germs will be killed off first (good citizens no longer using guns), but the resistant germs will persist (criminals). The bad germs will not longer be crowded out by the good germs. The result will be ripe for super resistant bugs (mafia and gangs) to begin breeding. Allowing guns for all is like allowing all the germs both good and bad to breed (let the child play in the dirt) with the good germs crowding out the bad germs allowing the immune system to keep up.

    The irony is the solution (anti-bacterial) can be good in the short term, but even a good thing can cause worse problems in the longer term. I can understand why this appeals to short term thinkers, who can't anticipated too far. It will help in the short term and therefore it appears to be workable.
     
  9. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    12,738
    Damn right!
    Guns are good for shooting the bad guys. Everyone should have one.
    It's your constitutional right, laid down in the Second.
    Plus if you've got a mind to shoot yourself in the head, you can go right ahead and do it.
    And no commie liberal can stop you.


    Some statistics
    Homicide
    Guns were used in 11,078 homicides in the U.S. in 2010, comprising almost 35% of all gun deaths, and over 68% of all homicides.6
    On average, 33 gun homicides were committed each day for the years 2005-2010.7
    Regions and states with higher rates of gun ownership have significantly higher rates of homicide than states with lower rates of gun ownership.8
    Where guns are prevalent, there are significantly more homicides, particularly gun homicides.

    Suicide
    Firearms were used in 19,392 suicides in the U.S. in 2010, constituting almost 62% of all gun deaths.10
    Over 50% of all suicides are committed with a firearm.11
    On average, 49 gun suicides were committed each day for the years 2005-2010.12
    White males, about 40% of the U.S. population, accounted for over 80% of firearm suicides in 2010.13
    A study of California handgun purchasers found that in the first year after the purchase of a handgun, suicide was the leading cause of death among the purchasers.14
    Firearms were used in nearly 44% of suicide deaths among persons under age 25 in 2010.15
    More than 75% of guns used in suicide attempts and unintentional injuries of 0-19 year-olds were stored in the residence of the victim, a relative, or a friend.16
    The risk of suicide increases in homes where guns are kept loaded and/or unlocked.


    http://smartgunlaws.org/gun-deaths-and-injuries-statistics/
     
  10. Sorcerer Put a Spell on you Registered Senior Member

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    856
    I think he's being sarcastic.
     
  11. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    12,725
    Good analogy. Antibiotic resistance is caused by too many people using antibacterials and antibiotics in cases they don't need to. Thus, limiting who can use antibacterials and antibiotics to doctors - and having better control over when they use it - can help prevent antibiotic resistance. Thus limiting gun use to police - and even then making sure they will not use them unless absolutely needed - will prevent gun overuse and resultant lack of effectiveness of guns.
     
  12. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    Obama-loving tree-hugger!
    Who's going to defend your womenfolk?
    Get yourself a gun, before it's too late.
     
  13. Buddha12 Valued Senior Member

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    2,862
    Not a very wise move because the teacher could go crazy and they have the weapons which they could use inside the schools.
     
  14. arauca Banned Banned

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    That is a very good point
     
  15. kwhilborn Banned Banned

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    2,088
    @ Captain kremmen,

    Wow! That is a loaded statement.

    EDIT: NOTE I DID NOT VIEW ABOVE QUOTE WITH INTENDED SARCASM. I APOLOGIZE TO CAPT. KREMMEN IN FOLLOW UP POST.

    You have managed to stop mass shootings congratulations, yet the death toll with your solution would increase if we use statistics as a base.

    Gun violence, accidents are far more prevalent in countries where firearms are permitted. It is true that armed people might have stopped a mass shooter sooner, however some shooters hide in Vans and Towers or are moving amongst confused panic. Some shooters act as pairs or teams (Russian school).

    But...

    Arming everyone would result in more deaths than mass shootings ever would. Imagine you take a date to the Aurora cinema and there is a gun under each chair. Then your date spots Tommy Winkleberry her ex boyfriend sitting two rows ahead with her best friend who stole him off her. Humans have a tendency to react violently in high emotional states, and having a gun handy does not spell a terrific evening for Winkleberry, the Skank, or the 11 children sitting in the crossfire.

    I have never seen a real handgun being held or fired. It is likely because I live in a country where the only people using guns are gangs immigrating from the United States. Violence committed with guns leads to significant monetary costs. Phillip J. Cook estimated that such violence costs the USA $100 billion annually.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...e-violence-yet-fewer-deaths-than-in-u-s-.html

    12 000 less deaths per year if America had the same gun policy as the UK.
    12 000 less deaths per year if America had the same gun policy as the UK.
    12 000 less deaths per year if America had the same gun policy as the UK.
    12 000 less deaths per year if America had the same gun policy as the UK.

    I had to repeat that line because

    12 000 less deaths per year if America had the same gun policy as the UK.

    is a hell of a lot of extra deaths.

    How many of those are babies and children? Do you care? What if it happened to someone you know?

    Does the U.S.A. have no regard for children and adolescents?

    I can understand you wanting a gun though. It is because you have neighbors on both sides as well as front and back of your home who all have guns inside their nightstands.

    It is too late, and the only method to rid homes of them is to do a house by house search and seizures.

    You may hear the statement "Guns don't kill, people do.". Yet the UK has double the violence of the USA and yet has less than half the deaths. That statement must be flawed. I will agree that people do kill though, and it is because everyone has lapses in sanity during their life.

    @ Captain Kremmen,
    Arguing for guns is not sane. I do not wish to be mean but I hope those 12 000 extra deaths you have each year affect gun supporters more than they do innocents.

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    for each of the x's above 10 (EXTRA) people die in the USA. If gun controls were equal to the UK none of these extra homicides would occur. This does NOT include those injured by firearms each year which is much greater.

    @ Opening Post.

    Turn Classrooms into Panic rooms. Throw a bombproof steel door on every classroom and it could easily be locked down in case of emergency. Every classroom I had from Elementary to University could easily be a panic room with the simple addition of a bulletproof door. There could be additional measures (think before you point out flaws), but that would be a good start. Common areas could be reduced in size with lockable doors also, imagine dividing a cafeteria into 10 rooms. Have software scanning school video feeds looking for guns or suspicious behavior like men going into women's washrooms, combat gear, running, mass hysteria, etc. There are proactive solutions.

    A teacher is as likely to go berserk as the next guy, why not listen to Captain Kremmen and give all the kids guns as well.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2013
  16. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    The fact that you believe that someone could be serious spouting such nonsense says a lot.
    I am trying to parody the American Right.
    Almost impossible, because their own views are so extreme.
    What happened to these Americans?
    Are they still traumatised by the Civil War, or what?
     
  17. kwhilborn Banned Banned

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    2,088
    @ captain Kremmen,

    I apologize. It was late and I misread your sarcasm. It did shock me as I am somewhat familiar with your stances, but I am used to Americans being a bit "Gun" ho.

    @ Everyone,

    Note above apology. It was late. I was tired.

    After a dozen years here I guess it was time for me to finally be wrong once.
     
  18. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,738
    I don't think that a ban on guns would work in the USA.
    Their use, and what they symbolise, is too entrenched.

    The best house protection is good locks.
    And a wuf wuf.
     
  19. Kittamaru Now nearly 40 pounds lighter. Staff Member

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    13,045
    Banning guns outright simply wouldn't work... last time I checked, murder, rape, and incest is illegal, yet they all still happen.

    Stricter controls on guns could work - require guns to be locked via Biometric sensor to the person purchasing the weapon (of course they could allow others to use it by adding their fingerprint/biometric signature). Some police forces have these sensors in their guns to prevent hostile criminals grabbing their gun to use against them.

    Additionally, the waiting time and background checks for gun ownership should be extended, as should the gun safety courses required before you may own/carry a firearm... I got my permit in a two hour long "gun safety" class that I paid zero attention in and still aced the written and physical tests because I'm not a moron and have common sense... it shouldn't be quite that easy though.
     
  20. Buddha12 Valued Senior Member

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    2,862
    Another point to not having guns in schools is that if the students ever find out where they are kept they could break into the place and either steal them or use them there at their school againsy others,
     
  21. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    How do you get an omnipotent, omniscient being "out of schools"?
     
  22. arauca Banned Banned

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    Did you go to public school or did you go to private Jewish school ?
     
  23. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    Public school.
     

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