Orca vs Great white shark?

Discussion in 'Free Thoughts' started by Dr Lou Natic, Feb 22, 2003.

  1. Enmos Registered Senior Member

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    Have you seen the movie ?
    Other Orca's ? Not all animals are human-like, there a very few species that would kill their own.
    People ? Maybe, but Orca's dont really know wether humans are competition or not.
     
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  3. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    but it knows that sharks are competition.

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    They don't kill their own species because they're not animals like us? LOL
     
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  5. Enmos Registered Senior Member

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    Hmm im being serious here.. they KNOW sharks are competition. Watch the movie, the shark is after the seal..
    How would they know humans are competition ? Humans dont exactly live in the ocean. Besides, i said maybe.. its not unthinkable that an Orca would attack a human.

    Animals like us yeah, we do kill eachother. That is not a common thing in the animalworld.
     
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  7. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    The orca has a history of killing sharks. The clip even states it luuuuuuuvs shark liver.
    It says nothing abut killing it due to competition. The orca isn't thinking "Hey!! get away from my seal!" Its thinking "Yippeeeee!! I'm having liver tonight!"
     
  8. Mr.Spock Back from the dead Valued Senior Member

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    i remember an episode on national geographic how an illustrated orca cardboard image scared off a white shark.
     
  9. Xevious Truth Beyond Logic Registered Senior Member

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    The great predators of the ocean believe it or not all keep each other in check. Before getting into the Great White vs. Orca debate I wish first to give a similar and well known example. The Bull Shark is indeed one of the most agressive and deadly breeds of shark known. It swims from the Amazon through the ocean and up the Mississippi each year as part of it's life cycle. It is smaller than the Great White but far more agile, and has a higher testosterone count than most creatures. Yet, the Bull Shark has a known predator that kills not for food, but purely for dominance. This is the Tiger Shark, which is larger and more deadly than the Bull. In turn, the Tiger Shark and others like it will avoid the presence of a Great White Shark for the same reason. Wether the Orca kills the Great WHite for dominance or for food is irrelevant, it also keep another major predator in line, as has been pointed out the Great White has been killed by Orcas on numerous occasions. So then, what prevents the Orca from killing every Humpback, Grey, Right, and Blue Whale in the ocean? It could not be the numbers of great whales... for they reproduce slowly and take years to mature. The Orca is kept in by yet a larger predator. This would be the Sperm Whale, which is stronger yet, can dive far below the reaches of an Orca, and also travels in pods. Though Orcas have killed female Sperm Whales on occasion, Sperm Whale Bulls can kill an Orca at whim. Sprem Whales in turn are sometimes killed by their most exotic prey - the Giant Squid.

    Since little is known in turn about the Giant Squid it can not be said what lurks deeper in the ocean which in turn keeps him in check. It may ironically lead back into sharks of some form... or perhaps something far larger and dangerous than anything we have ever imagined. Who knows what lurks at the bottom of the deep.
     
  10. Enmos Registered Senior Member

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    True, the Orca may love to eat the sharks liver, but the main reason for it attacking the shark would be competition. They share the same foodsources.
    At the end of the movie the narrator says: "Now, theres one less shark in the killing zone". This refers to the kill being a competition kill.
     
  11. darth_maul Registered Member

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    All that is not at all comparable... The orcas which drove out this otary, did not kill it out of only one blow, because it is a kind of training for the young people, and also to play with! Let us point out it, the orcas play with their preys, like the cat with the mouse! Moreover, one should not all confuse!! The orcas play with their small preys (otaries, dolphins), but when it acts of a shark, the behavior of the orca changes! The orca will sink on the shark like a bull enrager, and will kill it in a few seconds! The orca goes can be to spend 6 minutes to kill an otary, but it is because it plays with. Whereas when the orc sees a large white shark, it knows that this prey is dangerous, and will finish some immediately! It will kill it with rage! Have already considering an orca mad? Moreover, the orca with an advantage of size! The white shark cannot fight against a very intelligent superpredator! It as should be noted as the shark is very fragile, especially under the belly! It is less resistant than an orca, because it has a very light and cartilagineux skeleton. Whereas the orca has a framework much more solid. Moreover, the orcas (especially orcs "transiantes") has jaws of an incredible power! It can exert a pressure of several tons per square centimetres! A white shark of 20 foot, could probably kill an orca, but only if it makes it by surprise, and if it attacks the orca by below. But the white shark will never risk its life by doing that! Because it is likely to be made kill in its turn, by another orc which will be avenged! The power of an orca is 20 times higher than the power of a white shark.

    Information: orca 20 foot male = 4,5 - 5,5 tons
    orca 20 foot female = 3 - 4 tons
    White shark 20 foot male = 2 tons
    white shark 20 foot female = 2 - 3 tons

    Afflicted for my bad English.
     
  12. Lord Hillyer Banned Banned

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    Despite his presumably more primitive intelligence, colder blood, and lower cuteness, I put all my money on a Megalodon vs any mammal or even dinosaur.

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  13. Lord Hillyer Banned Banned

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  14. darth_maul Registered Member

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    Can be, but I do not believe that the mégalodon made the weight vis-a-vis with a band of mad orcas. Because, when one is intelligent, one manages to beat anything, and the union makes the force. But it is not the force which counts... It is the beauty of the animals... And the orca is of an incomparable beauty... The orca with cotoyé the mégalodon during thousands of years. Result??? The orca continues to make live its species, and the mégalodon not. Therefore, the orca showed itself quite higher than Mégalodon.

    PS: at the predatory large level, I do not know if the mégalodon would have made the weight vis-a-vis in famous Liopleurodon which had some 3 meters length jaws and teeth of 40 cm... Moreover, it measured 25 meters. Otherwise, since according to last the scientific studies, the mégalodon measured 15 meters maximum, I think that a 10 meters length male orca, could have killed it while sinking in the belly of the shark.
     
  15. GeneR Registered Member

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    I would like to know where you guys have heard of these mythical stories of an Orca seeking revenge on a Great White of the coast of San Francisco. Please link me to the story.

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    There has been ONE recorded attacking on a baby great white by TWO Orcas. They don't cross paths, studies have been done. And that one recorded attack that you see on Youtube is an edited video. I see no Great White there, just two Orcas eating away at some rotted carcass.

    Orcas have several advantages. One they may be "smarter", and that's a big maybe. The other is that they tend to be bigger and always travel in packs.

    One on One encounter with a big hungry Great White would be some dangerous territory for a stray Orca. Great Whites possess too many hunting tools. One hard serious bite from a Great White may be the end of an Orca. They can bite through thick steel if they needed to. Being closely related to the Mako shark and shaped like a torpedo, I don't know if an Orca would be able to out pace it.

    Great Whites have been alone out in the ocean for as long as the Earth has been around. They have not changed or drastically evolved. They are immune to almost any disease. The only thing that changes is their hunting patterns, meaning they learn and adapt. Even though they are smaller than an Orca, one on one they would do some serious damage to it. The Orca is smart but it's vulnerable, one hard steel cutting bite from a Great White and its done for. It will struggle to the surface for air and breathe. The longer it holds its breath the more tired it will get. It would only be a matter of time till there is a big floating carcass from an Orca with several Great Whites feeding on it. This of course is my opinion. There has been no REAL recording of the two animals attacking each other.
     
  16. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    They have an additional advantage that has been noted in earlier posts and you missed by coming into the thread late. Warm-blooded oxygen breathers have a much higher-energy metabolism than cold-blooded gill breathers. Other things being equal, this makes them stronger, pound-for-pound. This is why mammal and bird species that have totally (cetaceans), almost totally (penguins, pinnipeds) or partially (polar bears, river otters) readapted to an aquatic environment are usually near the top of their food chains.

    Comparing these species to their less-adapted close relatives, observation suggests that the reason they migrated back into the water in the first place was the easy life they found there, lording it over the gill-breathers. (Seals are order Carnivora. Cetaceans are, suprisingly, artiodactyls, descendants of primitive hippopotamuses who swam to the end of the river and just kept going.)
     
  17. GeneR Registered Member

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    LMAO right. History doesn't lie. Great Whites have been roaming the seas by themselves hunting for food. Sorry there have been no proven Orca attacks on a Great White. Orca fan boys love to think that Orcas have been killing Great Whites. Where? When? Links? Some BS video that shows no shark, with TWO adult Orcas means nothing to me. I never even hear of a dead Great White floating around, only ones that are killed by humans or trapped in fishing nets.

    Orcas have the advantage of size and the fact that they hunt in packs. The Great White is the superior killing machine. Its hunting senses are on another league from the Killer Whale. On top of that they can stay in deep waters for as long as they want. Their sense of sight and hearing is remarkable. They can sense electronic impulses and heart beats miles away. They are a cautious predator that stalk their prey with an element of surprise.

    Scientist know that a full grown Orca will get up to 30 feet. Scientist don't know squat about a Great White. The 18-21 foot Great Whites they encounter tell them nothing of age or whether they are fully grown. 3-4 inch great white teeth have been found, that are not old, indicating larger Great Whites may exist. They don't get cancer or any diseases, they have been virtually uinchanged through history. Only thing that changed is they too adapt to their environment and prey.

    An Orca or a whole pack of them will not mess with a 18-20 foot Great White. A white if extremely hungry will attack anything. If Great Whites would hunt in packs, it just wouldn't be fair to everything else in the water.
     
  18. Enmos Registered Senior Member

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    Whoever is the better killer, you are still a Great White fan boy...

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  19. LeGenD101 Registered Member

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    The Orca has co-existed with Carcharodon Carcharias for millions of years and these two animals often compete for food in same regions. Result? They both are still thriving.

    So do you think that your logic makes any sense?

    Wrong conclusion!

    Orcas came in to existence about 5 million years ago in the Pliocene Epoch but still Megalodon had remained at the top of the food chain during the entire Pliocene Epoch, which ended about 1.8 million years ago.

    Megalodon was actually specialized in hunting large animals including "Whales (big or small)." It was a perfect killing machine and dominated the marine world for millions of years.

    But nothing lasts forever as evident from history and this concept applies to any living being (including us "humans") as well.

    The skull of the largest known true Liopleurodon individual is about 1.5 m long and this creature is estimated to be about 11 m long and weighed about 5 tons. This animal is actually a "Liopleurodon Ferox."

    That 3 meter long skull that you have mentioned here actually belongs to a creature which is termed as “Monster of Aramberri.” But this animal is actually not a "Liopleurodon Ferox" and has been wrongly and pre-maturely portrayed by media to be a Liopleurodon. This newly discovered Pliosaur is estimated to be about 15 m - 16 m long.

    However the remains of this Pliosaur has revealed that an even bigger Pliosaur had existed and it attacked this creature and that monster probably had a 4 meter long skull and could have been about 21 m long.

    Wrong again.

    The maximum size of Megalodon was calculated to be about 16 m but this calculation is based on a 6.61 inch Meg tooth. And this estimate is now obsolete because people have found several bigger Meg teeth and some of these teeth are over 7 inches long.

    So the latest findings indicate that the Megalodon could reach 60 feet (18 m) in length or possibly even exceed it.

    You forgot to consider several other factors here.

    1) Size:

    An adult Megalodon is far bigger then an adult Orca. (18 m vs 10 m)

    2) Weight:

    An adult Megalodon is 6 to 7 times more heavy then an adult T-Rex called “Sue.”

    And some paleontologists have estimated that this shark could have weighed even more.

    3) Power:

    This monster shark was specialized in hunting large animals and it had to fight with various species of Whales on regular basis in its life and who would come out victorious in such struggles is already clear to us through fossilized evidences.

    4) Damage:

    This shark can chomp an adult Orca in to two pieces in a single go.

    5) Psychology:

    Orca seldom confronts the Bull Sperm Whale because it is dangerous.

    Now a Megalodon is even more dangerous because it is more agile and will fight back more effectively.

    Also small predators try to avoid confrontation with predators that are bigger, more powerful and dangerous because such encounters can be fatal for smaller predators.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2007
  20. Xevious Truth Beyond Logic Registered Senior Member

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    You have obviously not heard of CA2. She is a 25 year old transient Orca who is known to repeatedly attack and kill Great White Sharks for the soul purpose of eating their livers. 10 years ago (boy are you behing in Marine Biology) she was caught on tape. She is also known to have been a member of an Orca pod which that same year killed a Grey Whale calf in another well known Orca video.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8GaDuCvYbE

    http://www.extremescience.com/orcavshark.htm

    Indeed, this was originally mentioned in the 3rd posting of this very threat. If you think the video is bogus (which puts you squarely against every Marine Biologist in the scientific community) then you are way off base. It was all over CNN, and every other news outlet as well. The question has been settled by nature. The Orca is supreme against the Great White. I'm far more interested in seeing how the Orca stacks up against it's more deadly adversary - the Sperm Whale bull.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2007
  21. hryptr69 Registered Member

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    Evolution

    Well... lets just put it this way. In a 1 on 1 - in the wild - situation GW Shark would win hands down.

    You see mammals are superior beings thats for sure. Evolution has sides towards the mammals. Hot blooded, higher intelligence, and size, are all the strengths.

    So why would a mammal such as an Orca loose to a GW Shark in a 1 on 1 - in the wild - situation? Well simply because of Evolution.

    The shark is purely an instinctual predator. Evolution has sharpened its killing abilities to a point where it would easily ambush a stray adult Orca and wound it to death. Its more like a ninja vs samurai. Where the samurai charges and a ninja attacks from the shadows. So no matter how skillful the samurai, he cannot win something he cannot see. Most text and documentaries reveal that sharks often attack un-expecting preys. So its natural to assume that if a shark was to take on an Orca (in the wild) it would do so by surprise.
    (Knowing that who ever gets the first bite in would win.) So it would not be a brawl. IT would be a very calculated procedure much like surgery.

    Or you could pit Man vs Lion. In a stripped down situation in a colloseum. A man is no match for a Lion. Evolution has created lion as the super predator on land. In the salt water GW is the super predator.

    BUTTT!!!! We are talking about REAL LIFE WILD SITUATION! Therefore EVOLUTION has chosen mammals to be the super predator not because we specialize at killing nor because we specialize a adapting, BUT Because we specailize in Living (Surviving) "Survival of the fittest."

    So LION are no match for a human IN THE WILD. WE hunted them super predators for skins and as trophies. GUNS or SPEARS WE BEAT THE CRAP OUT OF THEM. We also HARPOONED GW's ASS made shark fin soups outta them. AND IN the if we don't do something about it... We would probably pollute them to death.

    So in the WILD an ORCA would do what we would. Study the Shark. analyze its paterns of attack. Hunt it down in packs. Ofcourse the actual kill will be done by the dominant animal of the pack but the rest are there to make sure that the shark does not have the chance to launch a surprise attack. Much like officials to make sure that TYSON doesn't hit you in the nutts and bite a chunk out of your ear.
     
  22. redarmy11 Registered Senior Member

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    lol.

    Boy, I miss Dr. Lou.

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    You wouldn't see him coming. You really wouldn't.
     
  23. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    Try Liopleurodon if you want a real predator.

    Red, shame on you for resurrecting the thread. Don't you know it's illegal in China?
     

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