OPTICS and GRAVITY

Discussion in 'Astronomy, Exobiology, & Cosmology' started by hansda, Sep 9, 2012.

  1. Rhaedas Valued Senior Member

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    That would mean that matter is not dependent on the spacetime it resides in. Remember, light is going straight, but in a curved spacetime, the straightest line is actually curved. So, just as the path of light is straight within the spacetime, so are the lines of the prism, so they curve similarly.

    Yes, different materials have different refraction values, but their behavior will follow the same pattern as above.
     
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  3. Trooper Secular Sanity Valued Senior Member

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    http://mathpages.com/rr/s8-04/8-04.htm

    http://www.marcolombardi.org/research/gravitational-lenses
     
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  5. hansda Valued Senior Member

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    Matter will be affected by spacetime or gravity. But refraction caused by the matter is indendent of gravity or GR.


    Right.

    When the Light enters prism, light will be deflected from its earlier path but spacetime will continue to follow its earlier path. So, through prism light will follow some other spacetime but not the earlier spacetime.
     
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  7. hansda Valued Senior Member

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    A ray of Light travels in a straight line through space unless it encounters any obstruction in its path.


    If due to some effect the space gets curved, Light also follows the curved space/spacetime unobstructed.


    In gravitational lensing, space is curved due to very strong gravity of the mass.


    So, Light also follows the curved space and bends around the mass.
     
  8. hansda Valued Senior Member

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    As Laws of Refraction and Reflection of Light are independent of gravity or GR, this can be said that:

    Light is independent of gravity or GR.
     
  9. hansda Valued Senior Member

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    From the discussion so far, it can be said that: Light is not bent by gravity. So, particle photon does not interact with gravity. Particle photon only follows space-time. When spacetime is straight, trajectory of photon is straight and when spacetime is curved, trajectory of photon is also curved.
     
  10. Rhaedas Valued Senior Member

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    No, you're mixing science models. Light follows a curved spacetime, just as a particle would. Orbits of planets can be seen as the planets also following a straight line in curved space. Gravity in this model is the curvature. But that curvature would not affect point interactions, such as the reflection or refraction point. It will affect the rest of the path of the light.
     
  11. hansda Valued Senior Member

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    I think you are talking about 'worldlines' or 'geodesics'.


    I am talking about 'curvature of spacetime', as in the case of gravitational lensing where spacetime is curved around a huge mass( like the Sun or greater mass than the Sun).
     
  12. Rhaedas Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, like this. Both matter and light follow a straight line, and the greater slope affects how that path is perceived.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  13. hansda Valued Senior Member

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    This is a general case of spacetime curvature around a mass to generate gravity as per GR. But in the case of 'gravitational lensing', the lensing effect happens due to the huge mass which curves spacetime further.

    Gravitational lensing could not be observed around the Earth, though it has gravity( ie spacetime curves around the Earth).

    Gravitational lensing could be observed around the Sun, which has a much higher mass than the Earth(where curvature of spacetime is more).
     
  14. Rhaedas Valued Senior Member

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    Gravitational lensing by the Earth is very slight, but it still happens, we just can't measure it, as the angle is so small. Even the Sun's affect is only a few arcseconds, very small.
     
  15. hansda Valued Senior Member

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    That is OK. My point is that lensing of gravitational lensing is due curvature of spacetime and not due interaction of photon with gravity.
     
  16. Rhaedas Valued Senior Member

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  17. hansda Valued Senior Member

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    Actually, spacetime is like a road and particle photon is like a car travelling in this road. Where the road is curved, the car travels in a curved path. This path is curved due to gravity. Particle photon is just travelling through this road.

    So, it is 'interaction of spacetime with mass', rather than 'interaction of photon with gravity'.
     
  18. hansda Valued Senior Member

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    In the absence of particle Photon, spacetime will curve around a mass as per GR. Presence of particle photon will not change this curvature, neither the curvature of photon will change.


    So, perhaps it is a wrong notion that; Light is bent by gravity.


    I think instead of Gravity, Electromagnetic force may interact with particle Photon. See http://arxiv.org/pdf/1101.3433.pdf .
     
  19. brucep Valued Senior Member

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    If you read the paper, you linked, you'll find out your hypothesis is wrong [hint: it's not 'one or the other']. The paper is interesting for me since I haven't done much discovery on charged black holes. So thank you for linking it.
     
  20. brucep Valued Senior Member

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    Mass [matter] tells spacetime how to curve and spacetime tells mass [matter] how to move. A simple description of gravity without the details.
     
  21. brucep Valued Senior Member

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    So how many dumb things are you going to say about this subject? This is what happens when you don't know what your talking about. A large part of GR is about describing the natural path of light through our universe. Review the first empirical test of GR. You might learn something.
     
  22. Mazulu Banned Banned

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    Space-time also tells electromagnetic radiation how to move. But matter is made of electromagnetic radiation, right? After-all, particle-anti-particle annihilation releases a burst of gamma rays; gamma rays are a form of electromagnetic radiation. Space-time, in my view, is made of aether waves. Aether waves transmit energy as electromagnetic radiation (photons). If the stress-energy tensor curves space-time, then it actually curves the aether waves. Light (electromagnetic radiation) just follows the path (a.k.a. the geodesic).
     
  23. hansda Valued Senior Member

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    I think this analogy is not applicable to particle photon, because it has no mass. Spacetime is the medium through which photon travels. Particle photon can not travel without spacetime. So, particle photon just follows spacetime.



    If photon is deflected by gravity or GR, a mirror or a prism also can deflect photon. Mirror or a prism does not apply Gravitational force to deflect photon. Perhaps they may apply electromagnetic force to deflect photon.


    Can you explain bending of light through a prism as per GR(assume the prism is kept in the path of light where gravitational lensing is hapenning) , where the prism also can cause dispersion?
     

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