Operation "..............."

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Soulcry, Apr 30, 2003.

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  1. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    not really they get we love are country what they don't get is why we act like it can do no wrong.
     
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  3. StrawDog disseminated primatemaia Valued Senior Member

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    Israel, Jewish groups seek to discredit new U.N. report on Gaza war-Predictable

    The long awaited UN report on the war crime allegations during the Gaza offensive headed by Richard Goldstone has been released. The 574 page report suggests a thorough investigation around war crimes:
    Israeli reaction has been predictable, wailing about bigotry and morality, and pointing the finger outwards, the tried and tested method for deflecting ugly truths. A segue bringing an innocent Iran into the issue by Knesset Speaker Reuven Rivlin below:
    This is of course, is a known and proven falsification and attempt at disinformation. The moral arrogance is especially disingenuous, coming from of a nation that slaughtered 252 children let alone 912 civilians, in an attack on a caged people with nowhere to escape to.
    A predictable piece of spin from the ADL.
    The report was written and compiled by a respected war crimes judge, who, not that it should matter, is himself Jewish, and his experienced judgment is that an independent investigation is required.
    In a pro active and credible gesture of fairness, Goldstone,
    The attempt at distorting and hiding the truth is apparent. If there is nothing to hide, the investigations should be a formality no?
    Further,
    So, we have the same predictable outcry at anyone pointing fingers at Israeli excesses, they must be a bigot, in bed with Iran, or an anti Semite.
    The obvious injustices and crimes are clearly outlined in the report.
    (http://jta.org/news/article/2009/09...get-the-source-in-countering-goldstone-report)

    Its time for injustices to be heard, investigated, and tried.

    Any comments?
     
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  5. StrawDog disseminated primatemaia Valued Senior Member

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    Update from Haaretz.
    (http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1114920.html)

    Lets see if justice prevails.
     
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  7. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    Nothing is going to happen.
     
  8. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    It's interesting that we don't get a thread on the report itself, or the reactions of any other parties to it. Instead, we skip directly to the Jewish World Conspiracy, packaged with the usual moral posturing and sneering derision.
     
  9. StrawDog disseminated primatemaia Valued Senior Member

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    And your outburst above would be what? The predictable response alluded to in the OP?
    Feel free to discuss or debate any points.
     
  10. StrawDog disseminated primatemaia Valued Senior Member

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    I tend to share your view, that somehow, Israel will manage to get out of this. But the process is as above.
     
  11. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    Well if its a UN report you can be sure that nothing will happen. They are simply keeping themselves busy, earning that fat paycheck with yet another report

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    .

    Reports and suggestions mean if there is no institution to act upon the information. No sanctions will be given and the US will ignore the report or wag its finger towards Israel saying 'bad boy' and then turn around and give them the yearly 6 billion.
     
  12. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    Remember this?

    "United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon on Tuesday said a damning UN report on Israel's conduct in its recent offensive against Hamas in the Gaza Strip was not legally binding."

    http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1083191.html

    The UN do not honor their own reports so this one won't be any different.
     
  13. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    "Outburst?"

    Have you ever considered that you might get better responses to your posts if you'd stop going to such lengths to lard them with invective?

    It was a comment on how predictable - and counterproductive - your response was.

    That's exactly what I already did.

    I know it gets under your skin when people go off of your list of approved talking points, but you're going to have to do a lot better than bare condescension if you hope to control the discourse like that.
     
  14. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    The problem will be this:

    "the UN Human Rights Council, which appointed Goldstone, will be convening in Geneva for a special session on the report. Foreign Ministry sources said Tuesday that they expect Arab states will begin to prepare a draft resolution which will call for the report to be transferred to the UN Security Council. In a worst-case scenario, the Security Council could decide to transfer the matter to the International Criminal Court. Under such circumstances, the ICC could issue international arrest warrants for senior Israeli officials who were involved in Cast Lead." http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1114807.html

    It will go to the security council where England and the US will veto the resolution and that will be the end of that. What France will do is not certain but they will probably follow the British. China and Russia could very well abstain for their own reasons which has no affect if any member casts a veto. If they have to concur then this report is simply procedural.


    Article 27 of the United Nations Charter states:

    1) Each member of the Security Council shall have one vote.

    2) Decisions of the Security Council on procedural matters shall be made by an affirmative vote of nine members.

    3) Decisions of the Security Council on all other matters shall be made by an affirmative vote of nine members including the concurring votes of the permanent members; provided that, in decisions under Chapter VI, and under paragraph 3 of Article 52, a party to a dispute shall abstain from voting.

    Although the 'power of veto' is not explicitly mentioned in the UN Charter, the fact that 'substantive' decisions by the UNSC require "the concurring votes of the permanent members", means that any of those permanent members can prevent the adoption, by the Council, of any draft resolutions on 'substantive' matters. For this reason, the 'power of veto' is also referred to as the principle of 'great Power unanimity'."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_veto_power

    Funny how even Hamas doesn't approve of the report:

    "Hamas Tuesday rejected the Goldstone report, which accused both Israel and Hamas of war crimes during Cast Lead in the Gaza Strip. Hamas spokesmen said the report was not fair. A representative of the extremist organization, Ismail Radwan, told Haaretz Tuesday night that the report was unbalanced and completely misrepresented reality." (quote from the first link in this post)
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2009
  15. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    The interesting thing here is that the Arab States want to use this to get at Hamas as much as Israel (which is why the PA has been so supportive of the report). Likewise, it may be that certain UNSC members are more interested in getting at Hamas than in shielding Israel. So some sort of curve-ball outcome is possible here; possibly Israel would play along, if they were given some assurances about avoiding the ICC, etc. Doubtful, but the situation is no longer as it was for a long time...
     
  16. StrawDog disseminated primatemaia Valued Senior Member

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    Get over yourself and debate.
     
  17. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    The debate has already passed you by, despite your attempts to pre-empt it with canned talking points.
     
  18. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    Which UNSC members would want to get back at Hamas? The Russians were the first to invite and accept Hamas after they were democratically voted in and sanctions were placed on them, who knows what China would do. The US and UK get back at Hamas all the time through the arms they give to Israel. The problem is that there are no benefits in the US condemning Israel to the ICC especially when the US has a problem with Americans being brought before the international courts.
     
  19. StrawDog disseminated primatemaia Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, sadly this is the most likely outcome. However, this creates a bargaining chip for the US to apply pressure on Israel. Importantly, the fact remains, that for the process to get this far, there is an indication of definitive guilt, now exposed in the public domain.

    Yes, this is the usual political to and froing. There is little doubt that HAMAS is guilty of war crimes as well. Thus for the good of all, and in the name of justice, let all the dirty washing come out and be exposed. This is the only way to (try) prevent such occurrences in the future.
     
  20. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    I think the only way to prevent such occurrences in the future is for the United States to distance itself militarily and financially from Israel. Remember that even if the ICC finds someone guilty they cannot go into the nation and arrest them. The Sudanese president was charged with genocide and he is still the president of sudan and still continues with the same behaviour and is still supported by China. Sudan simply ignored the ICC.

    This report is all hot air.
     
  21. StrawDog disseminated primatemaia Valued Senior Member

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    Lets attempt this.
    1. Ethically speaking, having reached this point of war crime verification, should this process go forward to the ICC?
    2. If it is vetoed, what does that imply?
     
  22. StrawDog disseminated primatemaia Valued Senior Member

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    But if it is acted upon, that would be extremely bad press for Israel. And that would further swing political and public perception against Israel and its racist regime.
     
  23. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    What makes you think that Israel has good press internationally? The Vatican has spoken out against them. The French ambassador to the UK Daniel Bernard insulted Israel with these remarks "All the current troubles in the world are because of that shitty little country Israel." Why should the world be in danger of World War III because of those people?" There is ample criticism of israel outside of the US.

    If you look at the UN resolutions there is overwhelming bad press towards Israel but the problem isn't in the international community but the US and to a lesser degree the UK. As long as active american politicians, which includes every president, find more of a reason to support the state than condemn it there will be no change. Look at how H. Clinton said that the US would support Israel 'forever and ever'. Well I think forever is too long but I would bet that the US remains supportive for a very long time to come.
     
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