One way mars trip:

Discussion in 'Astronomy, Exobiology, & Cosmology' started by paddoboy, Jan 7, 2014.

  1. Sorcerer Put a Spell on you Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    856
    How are you going to get all that technology there? You'd need dozens if not hundreds of ships to ferry enough equipment to supply a self-sustaining colony. There isn't enough cash.

    That is a risky occupation, alright.

    See point one.

    It ain't going to work, so bad answer.
     
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  3. Sorcerer Put a Spell on you Registered Senior Member

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    856
    Is that right? Wouldn't the ships hang around so they could trade alond the coast? Hey, I'm not disbelieving you, but do have some links?
     
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  5. Sorcerer Put a Spell on you Registered Senior Member

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    856
    But all this stuff would have to be underground or heavily shielded, no? Humans wouldn't be able to be on the surface for very long because of the radiation.
     
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  7. Sorcerer Put a Spell on you Registered Senior Member

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    856
    There's another question here. How big would the colony have to be to be self-sustaining? A few hundred? A thousand? I suppose you could guarantee the diversity of the gene pool by carrying eggs and sperm there, but you need various skills, doctors, dentists, engineers, repair men. The conditions during the trip would be awful (radiation, muscle loss etc) and the living conditions would be bad (radiation, lack of exercise, poor diet, etc) so you would have to expect considerable illness, so you would need redundancy.

    And can someone summarise the benefits of doing all this? I mean in hard practical issues, not the 'because it's there' stuff? And cost-justify it?
     
  8. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    19,457
    The level of ionizing radiation at the surface is such that it could cause cancer in 20 years, not a level that would kill you in weeks or months. (And it's not a level that would be a problem for plants.)
    Bring some, build the rest.
    Probably dozens. Sure, there's enough cash. Just take the money we spent on the last two wars, build a cheap launch system and a Mars ferry and you're covered. The issue is just deciding we'd rather do that than fight wars.
    It certainly _can_ work; there's nothing stopping us other than will to do it.
    Probably on the order of 200 to provide basic skills with some redundancy. They would then educate the next generation.
    Still a lot better than what a sailor circa 1600 endured crossing to the New World. (Scurvy, disease, vermin, tiny hammocks etc.)
     
  9. Sorcerer Put a Spell on you Registered Senior Member

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    856
    Not acceptable, I'm sorry.

    You make it sound easy. Costs, timeframes?

    You know that the defence budgets are not going away any time soon, just look at what the Chinese are up to. And just how do you propose to build a cheap launch system? Have you told NASA how to do it?

    We're only ever going to have one basket. We need to take of it, and forget the Mars colony. Just think what we could do on Earth with all that cash.

    200 is a lot of people to ferry there, and the thought of bringing children into the world in such an environment is frightening.

    But we're not in 1600 now, so that's irrelevant.
     
  10. Buddha12 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,862
    I'd rather spend the money on cleaning up our own mess here on Earth before we go to another planet and pollute it as we have done here.

    The money could also be used for medical research to find new cures or technology that can help people.

    Trillions of dollars to send a few dozen humans to Mars is not very prudent.
     
  11. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    27,534


    Of course we do......But the achievements in the last 60 years or so in space exploration has helped in that regard......Take Satellites for example.
    What field of human everyday life do these not benefit us in.....Meteorology, Agriculture, just to touch the tip of the iceberg.
    And further endeavours will continue to improve our lot on this little blue Orb.

    The barriers of politics and economics are always variable, and difficult times will be followed by more opportunities.

    We were not born to stagnate on this fart arse little blue orb.
     
  12. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    27,534


    Get your money from all the militaristic endeavours being undertaken around the world.
    Don't take it off science and an effort to extend man's foothold in our solar system. How short sighted that is!
     
  13. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    27,534



    A great scientist once said, around the year 1897?, that manned powered flight was impossible.
    Lord Thomas Kelvin.


    I'm just pleased that the world will always have those prepared to go the distance, to try the impossible, and to go where we have not gone before.
    It's this type of human that has advanced society, certainly not the timid pessimistic cynic that sees difficulties and barriers in any attempt of anything new.
     
  14. Sorcerer Put a Spell on you Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    856
    So stop shooting the messenger and answer the question:

    Why on Earth send humans to the Red Planet? Just because it's there is the only reason, and that's not a good reason to kill people and spend trillions of $. And that's trillions of other people's dollars, not yours.
     
  15. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    27,534
    Yep, because it's there, and because it will improve our knowledge of the solar system/galaxy Universe.
    Just as the beginning of the space race improved immeasurably, conditions on Earth.
    And please stop the hysterical nonsense about killing people.....They are volunteers you seem to forget.
    Also as I have said, economics and politics are variables in any endeavour and will and do change over time.

    Pessimism won't take you anywhere, of that you can be certain.
    A great man said....
    “A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.”
    ― Winston Churchill
     
  16. dumbest man on earth Real Eyes Realize Real Lies Valued Senior Member

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    3,456
    Very good points, Sorcerer.

    And, as it was so eloquently pointed out to all on this Forum, even a "great scientist" can be mistaken or wrong about perceived "impossibilities".

    Why should any of us think that any Posters on this Forum, whether they are a "great scientist" or not, could be mistaken or wrong?
     
  17. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    27,534
    We have an old saying in Australia, not sure how familiar it is in other parts, regarding pushing shit up hill?
    I see this as similar....the more pessimistic amongst us trying to dishearten and reign in anything that smells of achievements, progress, and going where we have not gone before.
    That has happened throughout the ages....
    Happily I can say it will never succeed.....man's spirit and thirst to know what is out there, and what could be achieved will never be harnessed.
    Even if this particular endeavour fails, others will take place, of that you can be sure.
    We already have companies with reputable people at their helm working on further promoting man's achievements in operation.
    These are mentioned in the going to the stars thread.


    The Ironic thing about it all though, is as these goals are achieved, the cynics and pessimists then go along for the ride.
    That also has been evident throughout history.
     
  18. Sorcerer Put a Spell on you Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    856
    So there are no tangible benefits at all, and the waste of lives and money. You've just ended the thread, right there.
     
  19. dumbest man on earth Real Eyes Realize Real Lies Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,456
    Not sure how many "cynics and pessimists" will then "go along for the ride" on a "one-way trip to Mars". A few of the ones on this Forum have already stated that they are not going.

    Speaking of old sayings - my grandfather, when listening to people bickering about what should be done, or when, or by whom, would say : "Well, get to it then, that Ox is not going to harness itself to any Plow!"

    Hey since it seems to be "Quote Great People Day" :

    "Never interrupt me when I'm trying to interrupt you." - Winston Churchill
     
  20. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    19,457
    ?? It's not easy. It's Manhattan-project hard. But we accomplished that.

    For this particular project, the one in the OP? No idea.

    For Mars Direct, a pretty well analyzed mission? $55 billion over 10 years.

    That's not a matter of having the money, that's a matter of deciding what to do with the money we have.

    Lots of space exploration. Imagine what we could accomplish if we team up.

    No need. Elon Musk is already doing it.

    I'm sure Europe thought the same thing back in the 1500's.

    We could fight several more wars, kill millions and destroy the environment! Or we could use it to explore/settle Mars. Our choice.

    Modern cruise ships carry 6000 people, some for months.

    People who are easily frightened should DEFINITELY not go to Mars. (or skydive, or see horror movies, or bring kids into our far-from-safe world.)
     
  21. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    27,534
    " Yep, because it's there, and because it will improve our knowledge of the solar system/galaxy Universe.
    Just as the beginning of the space race improved immeasurably, conditions on Earth. "


    So you don't see improvements in our knowledge of the Universe as beneficial?
    You don't recognise the benefits of the beginnings of the space race as beneficial?
    You don't see Satellites as beneficial?
    You don't see the ISS as beneficial?
    You don't see any other benefits from space exploration so far?


    But you do see the wasting of money on militaristic endeavours instead of helping to alleviate poverty and hunger as beneficial?
    Or at least you see it as more beneficial than on continued manned space exploration.

    Again, despite your pessimistic outlook, I remain confident [well at least 99.9% confident] that we will get to Mars one day and eventually have a permanent outpost there.
    And just as confident further exploration of the solar system, galaxy, Universe will continue.
     
  22. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    27,534


    You misunderstand.
    The cynics and pessimists, ride, is the ride of progress and all that benefits from it. eg: Satellites and what they have done for meteorology, agriculture, communications, and GPS. The same cynics and same pessimists who would stop manned space exploration make use of these benefits.



    Well I'm off right now to hitch my Ox, instead of attempting to enlightening my downward looking friends. You?
     
  23. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    27,534



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    It never ceases to amaze me, with the horrific amounts of money being spent on military projects, that the pessimists want to target space exploration, and the many benefits gained from it, both that we already know and use, and those that as yet are unknown.
     

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