One of the Worst Days of my Life (illegal immigration bill)

Their standard of living at home was trashed by NAFTA, the free trade zones on the border, and US agribusiness. Wages, already low, dropped in Mexico, as farmers were forced off their land and industrial efficiency took over manufacturing operations without unions or other means of imposing employee interests on the arrangements.

These policies, and the consequences in infrastructure etc, also gave them access to the border itself.

Then the US corporations that had sponsored the trashing and set up the border situation used the influx of workers to drive down wages in the US.

If the border is not controlled, and the corporate interests get their way, wages in the US will equilibriate with those in Mexico. That does not mean the wages will rise much, in Mexico .

And environmental standards will equilibriate with their status in Mexico. That does not mean they will rise much, in Mexico.

And political customs, traditions, and worldviews will equilibriate with those in Mexico. That does not mean they will change much, in Mexico.

 

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Bad management? Just maybe?

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The shamnesty bill cleared the senate test vote today.

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Showdown.

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http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070626/D8Q0NH5G0.html

 

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Hey, all those rich Americans have got to have some dogsbody to mow the lawn, and some cute maid to bear illegitimate children... the real question is why not make them legal?

 

Because we don't want to be a third-world country. The criminal aliens are uneducated, poor, dishonest, and not welcome here. If they had come here LEGALLY, yes they would be welcome. But why should we reward them with citizenship when there are so many other immigrants from all over the world trying to get in here LEGALLY? The fact that they broke our laws to get in here repulses me the most. If they broke our laws to get in, and they break our laws to stay, why should we allow this?

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Exactly! I suppose sandy is not rich- she's just brainwashed by the elite...

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Thet are winning the war. Not bad for uneducated poor people, eh?

The corporations sure welcome them! LOL!

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Oh wow! But if they are legalized they will suddenly get a pay raise! Hail to the american government!!!

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I agree. They should go to the end of the line-up.

Your laws are not universal. They don't apply in Mexico....

 

And why is that America's fault? They Mexican government signed that treaty. Plus, last time I checked, life for the American farmers, manufacturers and and union folk stunk, too. It's called the global economy. Everybody is losing out to countries with low wages, such as India and Malaysia.

Again, I reiterate, the effects you document and seek to blame the US for could have been absorbed and managed if Mexico wasn't the corrupt pit it currently is (You don't see Canada suffering from NAFTA). Mexico is rich is resources and rich in people, but mired with ineffective government. Apparently, that's our fault?

Plus, on an individual level, the Mexicans who crossed the border did so knowing they were breaking the law. The responsibility for that act is on them, unless one subscribes to your rendering of events, which essentially says that whenever large economic forces "victimize" someone, it's OK for them to break the law. They aren't responsible...

What rubbish...

Sure, they did. But what's that got to do with anything? US companies (ostensibly) don't govern the US, elected officials do, and those officials are charged with enforcing the law, which they should have done. Also, what's good economically is not necessarily what is right, morally and ethically, either. The companies are essentially whining about worker shortages and wage costs, which, to use something of a gross analogy, is sort of what Southern (and Northern) business owners griped about when the idea of ending slavery was put on the table...

Probably.

Probably.

Probably.

So why is massive immigration a good idea for the US again?

 

My point is at some point all of these illegal immigrants must come into contact with legal citizens who know, or at least suspect their illegal status. So why haven't they been reported by these legal citizens?

Because they are all to happy to continue paying them $2/hr, rather than $12/hr for the legal citizen who could do such jobs.

So, where does the blame lie... Capitalism maybe?

 

What?

My entire post was in response to someone wondering how the Mexicans could be considered victims. Of course they can.

Canadians, btw, are suffering from NAFTA, jsut as US workers are.

 

Here's another poor "undocumented worker" who just wanted a better life. Seems he liked his $3 million/year forgery business too.

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Julio Leija-Sanchez was expecting Congress to pass a legalization program, which he called "amnesty," and said he could forge documents to fool the U.S. government into believing illegal aliens were in the country in time to qualify for amnesty.

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Sanchez also used his forgery ring to help smuggle illegal aliens into the country on the understanding they would work for his criminal enterprise. He was arrested on charges of forgery and conspiracy to commit murder.

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http://washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070627/NATION/106270081/1001

 

Right. I'm the one who argued they weren't. And I remain unconvinced by your arguments.

 

The last time I checked it was the US government's responsibility to enforce federal law, not mine or my neighbors. Also, when some citizens decided to try to enforce the law — the so-called "Militia" men on the border — they were attacked by Democrats and Republicans alike and called vigilantes. The funny thing was, the government couldn't find any legal reason to disband them...

Anyway, by your logic, the government should not arrest drug dealers until the users start turning the dealers in? Have I got that right? The law itself doesn't matter? Only the complicitely of those involved...

Oh, and I think I've advocated here pretty strongly to go after employers...

Yes, let's blame it on a way of life and an ecomonic systemt as opposed to the individual who actually committed a crime. It's much easier to do that, isn't it? Much neater— an nobody has to assume responsibility for their misdeed and be punished. How nice. Can we blame other crimes on capitalism, too?

 

And I remain unacquainted with yours. Nothing you posted up there has anything to do with my arguments, or the victimization of Mexicans ( and Americans, and Canadians) by this corporate scam. You seem to be irritated that somebody (not me) is blaming "the US" or "America" instead of Mexico for something (not quite sure what).

What individual drove the Mexicans off their land with agribusiness leverage, set up the free trade zones, and benefitted from the consequent influx of wage-eroding illegals ?

It's more than an individual can be accountable for. Half of that was legal. There's a systemic problem here.

 

There is a systematic problem, but there have always been systematic problems and will always be systematic problems, you can't excuse an individual's criminality because of them. Or are you advocating that?

You can talk in flowery language about systems all you like, but the simple fact remains that each and every illegal immigrant made the decision to cross the border illegally. They're responsible for that act. Or do you think they aren't?

 

of course they are. So what?

They are not responsible, nor is any single person, for driving the Mexican farmers off their land by the tens of thousands. They are not responsible,nor is any single person, for the corruption of the Mexiacan government abetted by the same corporations that benefit from the flux of cheap labor into the US and abusive free trade zones on the border. And so forth. Is that, or is that not, a victimization of those Mexicans ?

 

The above is a perfect example of trying to have it both ways.

They are responsible, but so what. So what? So enforce the laws, that's what. If you break the law, you should be punished, not classified a "victim" then given government aid and rewarded with citizenship from the country whose wealth and taxes you just violated and took advantage of.

Mexico was corrupt before NAFTA and Mexicans were leaving before NAFTA (Operation Wetback ring a bell?), so let's cease with this it's America's fault things aren't so good in our backwards neighbor to the South, and it all started a few years ago.

It's the Mexicans who have squandered their nation's natural advantages and created a thoroughly corrupt society that can't govern itself. Not the US...

 

This is like a freakin roller coaster ride already.

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The fragile immigration reform bill crafted in the Senate faces sudden death Thursday when a second vote is scheduled to shut down a filibuster.

If (mostly democrat) supporters don't get the 60 votes they need to end debate, then the bill is dead since the Senate schedule does not allow any more time to revive the legislation.

MILLIONS of Americans have been calling their state politicians threatening to vote them out of office if the shamnesty bill passes. Apparently it's having an effect.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,286973,00.html

 

This guy has the right idea. The sheriff in a FL city has developed a remarkably effective - and controversial - way of catching criminal aliens. Deputies in patrol cars pull up to a construction site in force, and watch and see who runs.

Those who take off are chased down and arrested on charges such as trespassing, for cutting through someone else's property, or loitering, for hiding out in someone's yard, or reckless driving, for speeding off in a car.

U.S. immigration authorities are then given the names of those believed to be in this country illegally.

A good start.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070627/D8Q1AOKG0.html

Criminal aliens tried to kill a border patrol agent who was trying to keep a criminal alien from drowning.
http://www.elpasotimes.com/breakingnews/ci_6242970

 

the spanish during their rule pillaged mexico and took alot of its natural wealth