One God?

Discussion in 'Comparative Religion' started by mathman, Jan 12, 2016.

  1. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    Thanks for the complement. Because I don't agree with your view , I am all that (hypocrites [see timojin] liars, intolerant and ignorant.)
     
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  3. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Actually no thank you to your last request: I was merely giving an alternative reaction, and with the rest of your post...If you were fair dinkum with the questions you asked, great! But you seem to have an agenda? You ask, but don't listen: There are many examples of that over your time here.
     
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  5. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    My agenda is to understand , but not overwhelmed with handwaving , I don't have to accept if the information not to convincing. Scientific information continually changes as new data appears and so the theory.
     
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  7. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    I would love to believe that.
    And that's the beauty of science: more observations..more data...more evidence...possible modifications of theories, and better understanding.
    But remember what you sometimes consider as hand waving, is just your lack of understanding.
    Whereas you accept a god without any observation at all, no evidence etc.
     
  8. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    [QUOTE="
    Whereas you accept a god without any observation at all, no evidence etc.[/QUOTE]
    Ley me ask you . Can you tell how much dark matter is there ? can you get a kilogram of it . Can you get 100 gram of pure quark down ? I can give you a large list and you would not be able to provide the material,
    I know there are some indirect way perceive them . But you believe , and I believe in it because it is science. You have chosen not to believe in the supernatural , I have chosen to believe in it, Some people perceive the presence of God so to us God is real , to you is not . Do you have any base to question them . I am sure there are millions of them. Statistically millions is a significant number . If you don't Change the number then statistically atheist and scientists who deny the existence of God are wrong.
     
  9. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    About 25% of the known universe and no, not as yet.
    No and no, but observational data has been able to calculate how much DM may reside in any specific region of spacetime by its gravitational effects.
    I chose logic, common sense and evidence.
    The god concept is non scientific for a start.
    But as I've been trying to tell you for a while now, I've got nothing against any religion or god: I don't actually give two hoots about what they believe and what they want to preach, but don't preach it in the science section of a science forum, nor attempt any insidious Q+ A scenario to try and trip up science or invalidate it. I very rarely venture into the religious section although this particular incident, I was motivated by something else. OK?
     
  10. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    Dear fellow I am with this forum about 6 months I open posted only 2 time on religion, but I have participated in many because the opposition bashing the believers.
     
  11. Syne Sine qua non Valued Senior Member

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    They all originated from a common cultural background, but do not have similar enough attributes to assume them identical. People who consider them the same typically seem to be taking a very generalized view.
     
  12. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Dear fellow, let me tell you categorically, you are a fraud.
     
  13. Hapsburg Hellenistic polytheist Valued Senior Member

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    All three religions root to, well, Second Temple Judaism and its antecedents. They differ in the interpretation of their claimed deity, but the figure is considered to the "God of Abraham" in all three religions.

    Now, whether or not this makes it a different god for each religion is actually a really good question. Despite sounding silly, and sounding like it has an obvious answer. What makes a god? Culture attributes are a serious consideration in this. Are Zeus and Jupiter the same? Mars and Ares? They are certainly interpreted and described differently. The cultural attributes are very different. But they are considered the same deity by some. The real question at the heart is: to what extent does cultural construction alter the 'essence' of a character or figure. Whether the figure is fictional, legendary, mythical, or historical become irrelevant in the face of that question.

    I personally am usually more of a postmodernist, and side with the "existence before essence" line of thinking. I say "usually" because when it comes to the gods, I'm a devotional polytheist and don't quite agree with them being entirely culturally constructed.
     
  14. Edont Knoff Registered Senior Member

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    512
    Some notes:

    a) I consider the invention of monotheism a bad thing, because the "we have the only right god" will be an endless source of conflict.

    b) Almost nothing that we found exists in the quantity of one and only one. I can't be sure, but I dare to say, we did not find anything yet, of which there were not several instances, even if initially we only found one of the instances. Thus my believe is split - either there is no god at all, or very likely there are many gods.

    c) My understanding is that the mentioned religions mostly differ in prophet which they accept as true prophets (Jesus, Mohammed) and since these prophets told different things, the religions are different, but they all say "one god" so it's likely to be the same god, they are just unsure about which prophets are the right ones, and therefore, which is the so far final word of god on the matter of belief.
     
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  15. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    First is necessary to know who and what is God.
    If I define God is the Creator of the universe , so there can not be other gods , The Creator can have many names depending of the culture and language. but the Creator is only One. If we select for some reason other deity , we undermine the Creator. Then the system will deteriorate and may religions will spring up., then we will fight each other in the name of our deity.
     
  16. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    Happens anyway with the same deity, doesn't it?
     
  17. Yazata Valued Senior Member

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    Not necessarily. It's possible to imagine that there is only one true 'God' but that it manifests in countless ways. Most contemporary Hindus believe something like that.

    That way religious differences can still be consistent with monotheism.

    I personally like polytheism and don't think of it as an inferior form of religiosity, as so many do in our monotheistic religious culture.

    In polytheism the many gods and goddesses are associated with particular aspects of reality. And it seems to me that experience shows that different aspects of reality often seem to operate at cross purposes. Storms (and the storm god) damage vegetation, the turf of a fertility goddess. Life and death, good and evil, disease and health, reason and passion, there are countless examples.

    In a sense it's the same God, since it all derives from the earlier stages of Hebrew mythology. All three religions accept the book of Genesis (even if the acceptance isn't always literal).

    But Christianity in particular has made changes in that conception that the other two religions can't accept.

    So if we describe God as the creator of Adam and Eve and the initiator of the mythical Flood, then all three religions will say, 'Yes, we believe in that God'. But if we describe God as the Trinity or as the deity that incarnated in Jesus Christ, both Judaism and Islam will say, 'No, we don't believe that'.

    If we describe God as the deity that revealed the Quran to Mohammed, then it would be Judaism and Christianity that say, 'No, we don't believe that'.

    But all three religions would still likely accept that it's the same God, arguing instead that the other two religions don't believe the correct doctrines about that God.
     
  18. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    That doesn't follow. The Great Wall of China had more than one creator.
     
  19. Edont Knoff Registered Senior Member

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    I'm agnostic, but I see polytheism as the better choice, if a religion is needed - and I know that religions can help many people, so I don't see them as a bad thing per se.

    The benefit of polytheism that I see is a bigger chance for peace with other beliefs. If one already accepts the existence of many gods, it's easy to accept yet another one, or another interpretation of the known ones. This makes discussion between different believers easier, and allows compriomises, while the "this is the right one and the only one" doesn't allow any other opinion.

    To me polytheism is superior to monotheism due to this fact. It is more flexible, compromising, adaptable, and easier to personalize, because one can choose which god one wants to make to ones personal favorite.

    My own belief is odd. I believe in a sort of "life force" which connects the things in the world, and is present in all objects, more in some, less in others. In a spiritual way, this force allows one to connect with other things, and it also strengthens connections if a being creates something - the created thing has a stronger bond to the creator than other things. Generally spoken, if someone works on something, or with something, the spiritual bond between them is getting stronger. Thus you can make lucky charms which work for you, but they won't work for anyone elsem because they are bond to you. (Nice use of placebo effect here, with a sort of reinforcement loop, because it requires to work on the charm and with the charm, to strengthen the bond. And the more you believe in it, the better it works

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    But, this force is no god. It doesn't think, it doesn't decide, it doesn't judge. It doesn't sent prophets and it doesn't make rules. It's just there. If we are interested, we can get in touch with it, but if not, well, it doesn't harm. There is no heaven or hell, so nothing to strive for or fear.
     
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  20. Yazata Valued Senior Member

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    So am I.

    I won't say that I prefer polytheism, but I do think that it has some positives. It certainly isn't the more primitive form of religiosity that so many theories of the development of religion (theories that always seem to arrive at Christianity as the highest form) have portrayed it as being.

    I agree. I'm not hostile towards religion. That's one of my biggest differences with the more aggressive and militant kind of atheists. There are forms of religiosity that I do loathe though. (The more legalistic forms of Islam come to mind.)

    Yeah, that's true. One might argue that monotheism has become more prevalent as time went on, not because it's a superior form of religiosity in philosophical, psychological or spiritual terms, but merely because it's less capable of coexisting with forms of belief that are different and thus more prone to trying to eliminate them.

    I have another reason as well for liking (but not actually believing in) polytheism. I like it because it seems more consistent with reality as I experience it. If we identify various abstract principles in reality, we often perceive them to not be entirely consistent and to be working at cross purposes with their own agendas. Polytheism personifies that perception.

    I don't think that's odd. I think that many people share similar intuitions. I used to feel the same way back in the 70's when I was experimenting with LSD and was interested in parapsychology. But I've gradually drifted towards a more physicalist view in these latter days.
     
  21. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    First examine the attributes of God, that all the major religions agree to.
    Things like: Supreme Being, Supreme Creator, Omniscience... etc
    You'll most probably find that underneath the cultural differences, and different societies, of since time immemorial, that people believe in one God.

    jan.
     
  22. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    Yes we have an ego and makes us self righteous, and in many cases religious carrier is a profession .
     
  23. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    Religions also have a huge part to play in creating sectarianism, it's not just a personal failure.
     

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