On the Omnipotence of Murder

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by gendanken, Jul 29, 2004.

  1. gendanken Ruler of All the Lands Valued Senior Member

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    Edmund Kemper could sit feet away from you and with a straight face talk of his sitting at home one night conversing with the head of his mother. With his bare hands and a screwdriver, he beheaded the object of his ridicule that had suffocated him all his life with her mocking sneer at this failures.
    Gacy would describe the twisting of a gerot around 30 plus victims he left to rot in his basement, and did so with the careless finesse of twisting a can opener. Every night this man slept in the fog of rotting flesh floating up from the death in his basement.

    The natural reaction, of course, is to cringe at the thought of these men. Experiments show a catalog of heterogenous reaction to the sight of a corpse, it seems universal that the human mind should repulse death as it threatens his intellect. Yet does the Asiatic not relish the rotting smell of his Durian fruit while his American brother retreats from it?
    In a globalized world, as we know, individuality suffers but a strange phenomena accompanies it as the individual pieces that shatter from this breaking of Man become precious in the name of Respect.
    Each tiny piece becomes larger and larger the bigger the networks grow to spread the news that life matters, and the invididual swells in importance, strangely, on account of a hegemony that places little improtance on him.
    In the largesse of war, human life is expendible.
    In the largesse of society, something much bigger, human life becomes precious.

    So what of those that don't see life as precious?
    In studying murder, the premise is this: respect has become a thing of birthright and has re-established upon earth a Hindu ideal where gods again walk the earth.

    "There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men, which were of old, men of renown."
    -Holy Bible (KJV) - Genesis 6:4

    Man has become an Nephelim again- kill a prostitue, a refuse of space and wasted energy leeching off garbage, and she is able to destroy you with her murder. Never does it cease to amaze me the time and effort the human places on rectifying a name, any name slaughtered in order to respect it with burial and punishing the person he demonizes for taking a life. The murderer is seen as a monster for so carelessly..... taking a life that so carelessly cared for itself.

    The Gacys and the Kempers of this world at least get to laugh at this joke.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2004
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  3. §outh§tar is feeling caustic Registered Senior Member

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    Speaking of which, abortion by any other name is still murder.

    Queasiness is simply emotional weakness that must be overcome. I heard Americans want to put away all their elderly because they are no longer a use to society.

    Why exactly should life matter more than death? There is simply no standard of which is better than which. Cowards who opt for suicide and decide to take their children along with them see this too, that there is no standard. Just because one thinks it is "sick" to kill, does not mean that it is sick to everyone.

    Murder is simply an exercise in free will. No one has any right to live because no one has earned a right to live.
     
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  5. robtex Registered Senior Member

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    would not say that the kempers or the Gacy's of the world did not hold life as precious. They just intrepeted its worth with a different code of values. Kemper's motive for much his killing was sexual in his attraction to woman and Gacy in his sexual attraction to children. Almost all serial killers have some sexual motive attacted to what they do. They hold value in that and in life but with a self-serving hedonistic purpose with absolute disregard for the well being of the victim. I read about Kemper in college and remember that both Kemper and his researchers have both assessed he does what he does by choice. People make choices based on value judgements. I don't know much about Gacy nor care to except that his sex drive was involved which he placed a value on.

    What was the purpose of that Bible qoute?
     
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  7. §outh§tar is feeling caustic Registered Senior Member

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    I was wondering the same thing with the Bible quote..
     
  8. gendanken Ruler of All the Lands Valued Senior Member

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    One:
    and two:
    Both of you gimps missed the point completely.
     
  9. §outh§tar is feeling caustic Registered Senior Member

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    Or maybe you have ignorantly placed a Bible verse where it has no connection?

    The verse in no way implies that gods walk the earth. You might want to read it in context before you make such a mistake again. Don't worry, it was an easy mistake to me.

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    In Christ,
     
  10. Dr Lou Natic Unnecessary Surgeon Registered Senior Member

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    I agree that murdering hookers should be legalised. At least decriminalised.
    Homeless people too.
    Like if you stand there on the side of the road doing it in front of children and police then ofcourse you should get in a little trouble, but if you just quietly murder a prostitute or homeless man in privacy it shouldn't be anyone elses business.
    JMO
     
  11. §outh§tar is feeling caustic Registered Senior Member

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    What if you murder a politician?

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  12. water the sea Registered Senior Member

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    It is very easy to talk, and theorize about murder and killing, when it is someone else doing it, and someone else dying.

    I wonder what you would say, feel, think if *you* would get attacked, by more, outnumbered, and would have to defend yourself, life or death.

    It is only those who have never had to defend their own life, in a real fight, that mystify murder and killing.
     
  13. §outh§tar is feeling caustic Registered Senior Member

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    Well seeing how you haven't been murdered (as of yet), it is very easy for you to talk like that about others opinions without giving any actual input.

    Do you have anything to say about my comment or are you here to criticize me?
     
  14. Dr Lou Natic Unnecessary Surgeon Registered Senior Member

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    That would be just perfect for sissies if it were true, let them think the reason they pee a little when they see a dead body or hear bad news is because they've lived a tough life.
    Of course it isn't true at all, but I'm sure you made some little inferior loser's day.
     
  15. invert_nexus Ze do caixao Valued Senior Member

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    Kemper. Gacy. Ramirez. Dahmer. Gein. Fish. Killers, Cannibals. Necrophiliacs. Nephelim?


    Here's how I would interpret this phrase. The respect for life. The respect of humanity that is our birthright. Belongs to us all. Well, we lucky few, anyway. If you follow. So, because it is seen that we are born inherently with this respect. Then we are born great men. Men of renown. As in:
    So, according to this interpretation. We are Nephelim. We are the gods upon the earth. The murderers are guilty of killing gods. Men of renown who deserve respect by their very existence. What punishment would not be too great for slayers of gods.

    I am unfamiliar with Emim. I looked it up and discovered a vague reference to a couple of verses. Very vague group. Seemingly the Emim were giants as well. Giants from the time of Abraham. They were defeated by King Chedorlaomer. Are you saying that the punishment of the murderer is the punishment of the Emim? I might gues that the Emim were wiped off the face of the Earth unconditionally. Women and children slaughtered, raped, mutilated. Standard procedure in those days, wasn't it?




    Yes, I think this is what you're getting at. The precious life of the gods upon Earth. The Nephilim have risen once more. Slay us and our might shall cause your downfall to the end of days. Slay us and incur the wrath of the brothers of god. The sisters of god. God.


    Very interesting point. I've never quite looked at it this way before.

    The question is, if we are gods, then what are they? God's murderers? And gods themselves? And who shall punish us for killing gods upon the earth? (This of course for places with the death penalty.)

    As always, issues like this always raise the spectre of Cain. "Am I my brother's keeper?"

    Heh. Or, I could be wrong entirely.





    A touch on the twisted side, Gendanken. But definitely provocative.
     
  16. §outh§tar is feeling caustic Registered Senior Member

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    John 15:13
    Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.


    I suppose we really are our brother's keepers, although we would like to think not invert_nexus..
    I don't think anyone would kill their brother and yet lay down their life for him in the same vein..

    Bitersweet comes in many flavors.

    P.S. We are not Nephilim.
     
  17. Fenris Wolf Banned Banned

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    What of them...
    There is fear in that which cannot be known, or that which the human cannot adequately explain to himself. The human will sit and know of Gacy, and of Gein, and see not another human but an alien - a monster. He cannot accept that this thing, in his eyes, is as human as he is, but a human which has for one reason or another shrugged off the weight of the knowledge of being "human". Those reasons have been explored, again and again, and given names - dissociation, a lack of empathy... and in the explaining away of this thing not seen as human, they take from it its humanity. They reduce it to nothing, except perhaps a curiosity, something to be studied. Thus they are able to sleep at night, those whose strength comes from being part of the Wicker Man.
    I wonder if they fully understand the implications in the murderer sometimes seeing them in exactly the same way. A joke indeed. Ed Gein, with his soup bowls made from skulls and a belt made from nipples.

    Man has become gestalt. Take from him a part of himself, and he will strike out in return as though a piece of his own flesh had been taken - even it be only a dirty fingernail. Yet, the gestalt man cannot eradicate them without invalidating his own existence, which depends on them being a part of the whole.

    "Each man, woman and child in that seething tower was sightless. They saw only through the eyes of the city. They were thoughtless, but to think the city's thoughts. And they believed themselves deathless, in their lumbering, relentless strength. Vast and mad and deathless."
    Clive Barker, Books of Blood, Vol I - "In The Hills, The Cities"

    My Wicker Man, Barker's Cities.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2004
  18. invert_nexus Ze do caixao Valued Senior Member

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    And it is this mentality that has created this situation in our life. Christianity is odd in that it is both a cult of death and life. It's precepts are at odds with itself in this manner. At once, life is precious, but eternal life in the beyond is more so. The laws of the Jew eradicated, for the most part reduced to love thy neighbor. So, the ultimate act of love might be to usher your neighbor into the eternal bliss of eternal life. To shuck them from this mortal coil. To show them the light. Yes?

    How many christians have motivated their brutality with such means? Many, I suspect.



    Fenris,

    In the Hills, the Cities. I love that story. That would have worked in excellently to other discussions we have been having. The loss of self through others. In the end, one of the cities dies, right? And the other goes mad and begins rampaging through the hills.

    I hadn't connected these with wicker men. To tell the truth, when I originally read the tale years ago, I had never heard of wicker men. I'd heard of Samhain, of course, and knew of human sacrifice. But, wicker man was not in my vocabulary.

    Once we sacrificed men to our gods. To ensure fertility, to ensure good weather, to ensure peace, to ensure good killing in the upcoming war. Many of these sacrifices went willingly, apparently.

    Now we sacrifice gods to ourselves. And none go willingly. All demand that their lives be respected above all. There is no greater than I. This world would not exist without me. Men of renown. Giants on the earth.



    And those who do take part in such things? Vets who have killed more than their share? Who have torched villages full of women and children? How do they look upon murder and death? Just another day?

    "I love the smell of napalm in the morning."
     
  19. §outh§tar is feeling caustic Registered Senior Member

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    Revenge is a dish best serve cold.

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    Had to say it first..
     
  20. §outh§tar is feeling caustic Registered Senior Member

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    Philippians 1
    21For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. 22If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! 23I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; 24but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body.

    Either way, the household of God wins. I hear it's called a "win-win situation". In this sound light, we can conclude that there is no reason to usher one's neighbor into eternal bliss.

    Certainly, even you see that there is no logic in that. For if that was the case, we would all murder our babies so that they could go to heaven without sin.
     
  21. gendanken Ruler of All the Lands Valued Senior Member

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    SouthStar:
    No, you see- you're [deleted]
    Still can't connect these together, can you?

    One:
    With two:

    Can you?

    And I dare you to keep transmuting this thread into a Christian vendetta, choirboy. [deleted]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 31, 2004
  22. wesmorris Nerd Overlord - we(s):1 of N Valued Senior Member

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    How about simple fucking ethics?

    You may only have SHIT for your life as I see it, like the prostitue or the homeless... but who the fuck am I to say your life is shit if you don't want it to end? Shall I make myself a god by judging you to your immediate demise? Live and let live because you are not my god, and I am not yours. Killing is right if you have to do so to satisfy your perception of what it means to survive. If "what it means to survive" is inclusive of slaughtering whores, who's to say you won't take to slaughtering children or whomever? At that point, society can't risk your freedom.

    Oh, and don't forget that regardless of someone's shitty position, they are still someone's son or daughter. The individuals within society are emotionally crippled enough don't you think? (so a free for all of killing people's kids might further destabalize an already somewhat precarious situation)
     
  23. §outh§tar is feeling caustic Registered Senior Member

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    @ gendanken

    I am sorry that you are unable to be civil about this discussion. I regret any unease or discomfort I may have caused you by my comments.

    It is factual that the Bible verse you quoted in no way implies that gods walked the earth. I am sure you are interested in maintaining that you are correct, even though the context of the verse disagrees.

    Sincerest apologies.

    In Christ,
     

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