Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by Magical Realist, Jun 20, 2013.
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With respect, I disagree.
There is no such thing as "fire of the tongue* except as a *subjective* mirror experience in people and some domesticated animals.
But when *humidity is 0 %*, no amount of prayer or sacrifce will produce rain. Wishful thinking does not produce miracles.
*Fiery spiritual speech" may affect people, but it won't alter the earth's orbit around the sun.
As Carlin said. "If God has a devine plan and his plan has worked for billions of years, you expect hime to change his plan for every schmuck with a two dollar prayer book"? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
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Whimsical or wishful thinking is not the same thing as prayer.
It's all *THINKING* by humans. We may be created in the image of god, but we are NOT god. God works his *Will* (the Mathematical function), regardless of human thought. Human thought itself is a *result* of the mathematical function. Now you propose that human thought can change the mathematical function??
Your *wishful* thinking is an assumption of *Hubris*, not "Obedience" , or as this Atheist understands it: "Respect for Universal Evolution, the Mathematical Function, and Natural Selection" ("Uncertainty")
What are you saying. kx000?
I prefer to think of nothingness as simply the absence of existence, like how darkness is the absence of light. It's something that exists conceptually speaking, but apart from that, by definition, in and of itself does not exist.
Close imho, but some also see space and time as real......I mean in the first instant, the BB was a creation of space and time [as we know them] so what was before?
Actually logically since it was the beginning of time, we have no before. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
It is more difficult, delving into the area of whether concepts are to be considered 'real', but certainly something is causing those concepts to be true (ie: space and time at least appear to exist, so something must exist to at least cause them to appear to exist, or function in the way we see them function). Concerning what came before the big bang, it doesn't necessarily have to involve the natural elements and, well, anything that was allegedly produced by the big bang. The big bang is merely viewed as the beginning of our natural universe, not necessarily the beginning of existence.
On the topic of "Without time there is no 'before'" I find the only issue there lies in semantics. We only measure time by order of events anyway, so I don't see why such order couldn't exist prior to the alleged creation of time or our concept of it. Even if something outside of our universe is able to be omnipresent within our universe, that isn't necessarily the same thing as removing time (or rather, the existence of the order of events) from the existence that is omnipresent relative to our natural universe.
From post # 146
So gods will is a mathematical function?
Human thought is the * result * of mathematical function?
What first is the basis of mathematics?
The basis of mathematics is objects; without objects there is no mathematics nor god; period.
Separate names with a comma.