On Nothing in a void.

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by Xelasnave.1947, Dec 22, 2016.

  1. Michael 345 Bali 1 week here 2 to go Valued Senior Member

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    Any good for beef sausages?

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  3. TheFrogger Valued Senior Member

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    "Mmm...," but what are YOU saying??
     
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  5. Sam Poole Registered Member

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    There is nothing to avoid. It is absurd to put a book on a shelf if it is already on the shelf you wish to place it on. The existence of nothing is clearly required. Kant had the idea that our experience of space might someday be found, if only by means of pure logic, to reside only in the mind, like pain or the color red. In a very real sense, there may be nothing behind everything in our experience. We perceive and communicate in the positive so communicating about a part of our experiential world that is inherently positioned in our mental reality in the negative is very difficult to do, and perceiving such things as "nothing" is impossible to do. However, the inability to perceive in a certain way doesn't exclude that which truly exists from being part of our actual reality. For example, the blind cannot perceive by sight but this doesn't mean that there isn't something there that could be seen if they had the ability to do so. I think that most educated and intelligent persons must surely know by now that the world we experience is not the world as it actually is. Therefore, it must be equally clear by now that knowledge of the imperceptible must come by a means other than direct experience through the senses.
     
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  7. TheFrogger Valued Senior Member

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    That's science. That which can be sensed.
     
  8. socratus Registered Member

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    nothing = void = emptiness = aether = zero vacuum : T=0K
    T=0K is filled with dark-matter = dark-energy = virtual-particles = antiparticles
    ============
     
  9. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    So tell me what do you consider to be present in a void...and by a void I mean one of those empty regions in space with virtually no stars etc...Bootes void...what do you think you may observe in say a cubic cm....?
    alex
     
  10. TheFrogger Valued Senior Member

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    There is space.
     
  11. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    What is in space?
    Perhaps you would like to tell me what you consider to be in a cubic cm. of space.
    We think of a section of space as nothing but I find when I think about it I can find so much passing thru I wonder how it all fits.
    alex
     
  12. TheFrogger Valued Senior Member

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    We exist IN space. I'm not writing about outer space. I mean space itself. Without space we wouldn't be able to move. We need space to move into.
     
  13. Michael 345 Bali 1 week here 2 to go Valued Senior Member

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    Which just happens to be outer space

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  14. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    OK what could you observe in a cubic cm of space in the region you are now..the room the garden whatever...
    I liked to think about it and as I said after a while you wonder how everything that you work out must be there actually fits...
    Alex
     
  15. socratus Registered Member

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    '' A world without masses, without electrons, without an
    electromagnetic field is an empty world. Such an empty
    world is flat. But if masses appear, if charged particles
    appear, if an electromagnetic field appears then our world
    becomes curved. Its geometry is Riemannian, that is, non- Euclidian.''
    / Book 'Albert Einstein', the page 116, by Leopold Infeld. /
     
  16. socratus Registered Member

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    Although we are used to thinking of empty space as containing
    nothing at all, and therefore having zero energy, the quantum
    rules say that there is some uncertainty about this. Perhaps each
    tiny bit of the vacuum actually contains rather a lot of energy.
    If the vacuum contained enough energy, it could convert this
    into particles, in line with E-Mc^2.
    / Book: Stephen Hawking. Pages 147-148.
    By Michael White and John Gribbin. /
     
  17. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Well I think of it this way.
    There is perhaps an infinite selection of trajectories that pass through every point and each point no matter how small a seperation from its neighbour will see a geometrically infinite number of tradjectories and along each tradjectory I suspect that there are particles rushing along at C..light for one maybe nutrinos even the background radiation...make a list of possibilitiesas to what may rush by.

    Think how many different trajectories and know that each must carry stuff.

    It is difficult to think this way but as I said when you mark out a small cube with all possible trajectories and then realise not one will go unused you will wonder how all that stuff can fit. Limit it to photons and build from there..they come from every direction even if your are inside in your room...and then nutrinos..billions from all directions each following a single tradjectory...so for me it is impossible to imagine nothing for it is likely that nothing actually contains a little piece of everything from everywhere.

    I know science does not need an eather but in saying that I think one assumes there is nothing physical in nothing well it seems there would be...call it something other than an eather but I hope you can imagine all I sugggest.
    alex
     
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  18. socratus Registered Member

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    science needs a new basis
    (not a big bang, but a void )
     
  19. Bowser Right Here, Right Now Valued Senior Member

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    Nothing is the empty space within a container.

    It is yet it is not.

    It's the void that makes all things possible.

    I can stir up the mud in a puddle of water, but eventually it settles and the water becomes clear...again.
     
  20. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Firstly let me thank you for taking your time to contribute to the investigation of nothing.

    And I think although your definition is most reasonable it fails to give recognition to the various gases, photons, neutrinos and presumably other subatomic particles we can reasonably expect to be present in your container of nothing.
    Could you expand upon that?
    That is a rather shallow observation and I suggest that you probably did not stir it long enough or the mud is contaminated with lead anyways stop playing in puddles or will catch a cold.

    I have reduced the search region to a cubic millimeter but it would seem still to contain a lot of stuff and still no room for nothing.

    I suggest to have nothing there must be a complete absence of something and try as I do I can not suggest any place in the universe where there is an appropriate absence of something.
    My search for nothing has revealed nothing.
    Alex

    Alex
     
  21. Bowser Right Here, Right Now Valued Senior Member

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    Being creatures in a world of something, it's hard to imagine a nothing, but it is from where we come and to where we go. You and I might be the empty container, filled with what we know.
    I apologize. I've been reading the Tao Te Ching. Although often hard to follow, it does offer some insightful propositions on which one might expand.
     
  22. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    No need we are after all talking about nothing.

    Imagine a speaking tour where you talk about nothing.
    I may read it so please dont tell me how it ends and spoil it for me.

    Alex
     
  23. Bowser Right Here, Right Now Valued Senior Member

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    Best of luck...

    "Tao cannot be defined, but Tao can be know."
     

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