So has Muslim food. Try ordering a tikka masala in Calcutta and New York. Oh wait, its the national dish of Britain.
*Shrug.* Don't go to Chinatown or learn to point 'n take risks. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Srsly, they have their children learn English. I don't care if the lady at my Chinese pastry shop doesn't speak English. I can buy my red bean dumplings elsewhere if I don't like it. (Unlikely!) Make your kids learn English for public school, though.
I speak Hindi and Marathi very well. Never learned much of either in school, but the neighbours did not move out when we moved in, so we did not live in a ghetto. However, what I use most is English. Thank God for the Anglos. You can either embrace differences or isolate yourself. The two are however, mutually exclusive. Not synonymous.
Why won't you answer these questions? I find it appalling that a community that first arrived in Blackburn during the 60's have still yet to adapt Please Sam address these questions: Actually I am now to think that its the muslims who are being xenophobic and ethnocentric. If they are open to other people why do they live all together in their own communities? Why don't they want to integrate with non muslim whites? Why are they threatened by a white woman walking through their streets as was shown in the Panorama video? Why is the pakistani flag being flown in their neighborhoods and not the union jack or both pakistani and english flags? Why is it they only marry each other? Why don't they send their kids to integrated schools? Its absolutely unfair of you to describe Europeans as ethnocentric and xenophobic and not address it in immigrants.
I did. I don't believe that the Anglos are wrong to not give up their culture. I also don't believe that people of British heritage born in India are immigrants. I absolutely disagree that it would be liberal of the BJP to force them to learn to read and write Marathi or threaten to repatriate them if they did not abandon their foreign culture. I think its great that I can speak English because of my Anglo teachers, it opened up avenues and ways of thinking not indigenous to me. I think its great that I can eat Anglo food, celebrate Anglo festivals and feel at home in London because Anglos have made it familiar to me. It would have been a shame to have lost out on all that through a misplaced sense of morality or xenophobia.
Why won't you answer these questions? I find it appalling that a community that first arrived in Blackburn during the 60's have still yet to adapt Please Sam address these questions: Actually I am now to think that its the muslims who are being xenophobic and ethnocentric. If they are open to other people why do they live all together in their own communities? Why don't they want to integrate with non muslim whites? Why are they threatened by a white woman walking through their streets as was shown in the Panorama video? Why is the pakistani flag being flown in their neighborhoods and not the union jack or both pakistani and english flags? Why is it they only marry each other? Why don't they send their kids to integrated schools? Why do they behave like this if they are not xenophobic and ethnocentric? Its absolutely unfair of you to describe Europeans as ethnocentric and xenophobic and not address it in immigrants.
I'm sorry, adapt to what? They are following their culture. I don't see why anyone on Gods green earth cannot have that choice simply due to an accident of birth. I don't want a Saudi where Indians and Filipinos adapt by learning Arabic and wearing an abaya. I want an India where they choose to wear what they want and speak what they want. We can never see eye to eye on this. Xenophobia: Don't let live. You cannot be xenophobic for choosing a language or culture. Only for resenting someone else for not sharing yours.
src: http://www.pdhre.org/rights/religion.html It doesn't matter if, for whatever reasons, a Muslim moves to a Protestant country and lives there for five, fifty, or five hundred generations they still have a fundamental, basic human right to freedom of religion.
To Integrate. No Sam they are xenophobic, if they make a non muslim woman feel threatened walking through their neighborhood with one of their boys its because they are xenophobic. If they cannot even send their children to an integrated school they are being xenophobic. It is incredibly ethnocentric to walk through the streets celebrating a holiday and not excluding all those who watch by refusing to speak in English and refusing to bear the banners in English. In short you blame those who would have them integrate as being xenophobic and ethnocentric but then look at this exclusive behaviour on the part of the immigrant and say they are simply following their culture. This is exactly why the BNP has won two seats and why they will probably win more in the future. Ok yes they are following their culture so what exactly is it that makes them British or Danish? Why fly the flag of a foreign country after generations of living in England? Why do you scoff at the term 'second generation' when it is something they use to indicate that some have failed to integrate enough to be called 'Danes'. This is a hypocrisy on your part to label westerners as racist, xenophobic and ethnocentric and then in the same breath say immigrants are just practicing their culture. What I am to gather from this is that if there is a majority population of non integrated immigrants in a town in England then it is really a supplanted Pakistan, since it would represent nothing English at all save the social welfare benefits that are received.
Culturally integrate? They shouldn't be forced to intergrate, they should be aware of cultural differences and respect the country's cultural observances. But forcing others to behave culturally is in violation of their human rights:
I completely disagree EmmZ. I think if they don't integrate you will see riots and more seats going to the BNP. What is the point of them living in England if they are going to fly a pakistani flag after many generations of living in the country? What's the point of living in England if they are going to send their children to schools where English is a second language? Why are they there if its only to live in a ghetto and isolate themselves from the host culture? Remember I told you EmmZ, do not complain when there is a backlash from English people who are tired of living watching a parallel culture grow and grow that represents a different nation and has no loyalty towards the country where they live. Don't be the ostrich complaining that the BNP has two seats, they do represent English people whether you like it or not. Integration isn't a sign of racism, its what happens to build national cohesiveness. Its why there was a bloody civil rights movement in the States, to NOT have separate but equal, it was about integration. To have a society where people can actually talk to each other in a common language and fight for ONE society not this hybrid mess that's occurring is not a negative thing Emmz its what might keep people from rioting in the streets.. Just don't complain if it kicks off thats all. Watch the Panorama link I provided in a former post White Flight I'm curious as to what you think. Integration does not prevent the right to practice ones religion so stop waving human rights about as if integration somehow interferes with that. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
So integration is taking away someone's rights? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! I'm loving it! Things have really come full circle. That's what whites felt when they were forced to integrate, as if their rights were being taken away. Listen, how is integration taking someone's rights away? There are muslims who integrate and are still muslims. So where does the lack of human rights come in? Since when was separate but equal preferable to integration and national cohesiveness?
I have no idea what you're talking about. What do you specifically want from non indigenous, non white people? What about the white people who don't "integrate" who were born here? There are plenty of young white people not "integrating" in society.
There is a phenomenon, a process if you will where when you begin to integrate people protest then after a generation or two of children going to the same school, meeting at the same park with their parents, there becomes less and less differences between the two groups, they form more things in common than sets them apart. Its not an easy process, people will groan and complain like lazy gits but eventually living next door to someone who is black or white or muslim seems less and less strange but it certainly doesn't happen by allowing both groups to exist behind a symbolic wall where they have absolutely nothing to do with each other and live in different worlds. They have done this in the States and it continues, they are trying to do this in Denmark but Sam thinks it racist, not as racist as sending your kid to a muslim school where everything is taught in Urdu though thats a good thing as it is 'cultural' There are school programs in Blackburn where they have to facilitate 'meetings' between children who live in the same bloody town for fucks sake man don't you see anything wrong with that? Having to do something like that because otherwise there would be no contact between the two? The priest who runs it said he had done the same thing in south africa and he has yet to see two groups so separate from each other. If you think that having to do this is a sign of progress then you're just a ninny. You said you read through the whole thread so don't say now you don't know what I am talking about. Racism will always exist that's a fact, people will always opt to shut themselves off from another group, the goal is to have that be the minority not the majority. There should be an effort to have more integrated neighborhoods than not. New immigrants should be housed out of ghettos.
I'm glad I'm not ninny Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! No, I understand what you're saying. There's a big divide in some very small areas of the country. It's not what's going on all over the country. We had the Toxteth riots in the 80s and my personal experience is our country is culturally diverse. That brings with it some problems. People aren't generally accepting of other people's cultures. I don't see how forcing them to integrate or get out is the answer, we already have citizen tests for people coming into the country. If people don't want to integrate that's up to them. The majority can't force a minority to conform to their values if the minority have different values. We just have to accept people.
Not exactly, the areas where there is diversity along with integration are not so divided even if there are a few problems but you cant have a large minority affiliating itself towards a another country and culture than the one its living in and that is happening along with whole neighborhoods where there is parallel living. I think you are not paying attention if you think this kind of division isn't happening. The law can reinforce integration and break up concentrated communities, banning racially exclusive schools etc. Its either that or let the BNP do the work for us. There is a study below where there is an excerpt. I will leave the link to the whole paper. The Impact of Neighborhood Racial Composition on Whites' Racial Attitudes in England by Benjamin T. Bower "Over the past fifty years, England has become a multicultural, multiracial society. However, the geographic concentration of ethnic minority groups in London and a few other metropolitan areas means that whites in many parts of England still have little or no exposure to non-whites in their daily lives. This paper investigates the effect that variation in the neighborhood-level concentration of ethnic minority groups has on the racial attitudes of English whites. In particular, it explores the contact hypothesis, which predicts that, under certain conditions, interactions between whites and non-whites will cause whites’ prejudice toward non-whites to decline. This paper analyzes survey questions relating to whites’ racial attitudes drawn from recent years the British Social Attitudes Survey and British General Election Study. Census statistics on the racial composition and segregation of respondents’ neighborhoods are employed as the measure of contact. A multilevel analysis is conducted to test the prediction that whites living in neighborhoods with relatively high concentrations of ethnic minorities would be more racially tolerant than whites living in neighborhoods with little exposure to non-whites. The results point to important differences between the effects of contact with the three largest non-white populations in England. Residential contact between whites and blacks, the most socially assimilated of the ethnic minority groups, is found to be consistent with the predictions of the contact hypothesis. However, residential proximity to Indians and, especially, Pakistanis and Bangladeshis, groups that are less socially and spatially integrated, seems to result in heightened racial hostility among whites. I conclude with a discussion of the implications of these findings for the future of race relations in England." http://www.allacademic.com//meta/p_mla_apa_research_citation/0/8/2/3/5/pages82358/p82358-1.php
So in London and a "few other" places white people have become prejudiced due to "certain conditions". I conclude the problem isn't with the majority of English people. It's a minority of hostile white people. Acceptance, tolerance, compassion is the answer, not segregation, apartheid and reunification. I have to ask Lucy, and you are well within your rights to not answer this. Are you English, have you ever lived in England? If so for how long and was it in a multicultural area of the country?
