On integration and assimilation

Discussion in 'Politics' started by S.A.M., Jun 11, 2009.

  1. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    re: the thread on the BNP and winning seats on the platform of "too much" immigration "threatening" the "ethnic culture" of a society.

    We have Syrian Christians in India. We have Bene Israel, Parsis, Iranis, Anglo-Indians, Pathans. All these people came as immigrants at some point in history going back thousands of years and in many cases continue to follow their own cultural and social systems which they brought with them. Yet, they are now more Indian than any representative of the societies to which they owe their origin.

    Reading about the "multiculturalism" dialogue going on in Europe, its surprising to me as an Indian that there is an atmosphere of threat perceived by individuals who see a "way of life" under seige. As the inhabitant of a country that has seen invasions from eons and lived centuries under foreign occupation, its my perception that if your "culture" is relevant to your society, it will survive regardless of any influx. If not, it won't.

    Most people in eastern cultures do not expect "foreigners" to change their way of life since they believe that foreigners are representatives of their own way of life even if they immigrate. But the question of assimilation seems to play a massive role in western society, which is quite surprising since I cannot recall any instances where the British, for example, immigrated and abandoned their way of life.

    What is the reason for these unrealistic expectations from immigrants?
     
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  3. Zap Facts > Opinions Registered Senior Member

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    Some people prefer having homogeneous communities. Do you want to override democracy and force multiculturalism on them?
     
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  5. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Nope but it seems odd that those who would not assimilate would then ask others to.
     
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  7. grimace Banned Banned

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    many do abandon their way of life after a few generations. this is normal. if i moved to china i would expect my offspring to become more and more integrated afa dress and fitting in at school etc.

    if billions of westerners moved to china or india i suspect they chinese and indians would say something about it. that doesnt happen though. on the other hand no countries seem to stop their people from leaving, except for cuba but then there would be no one left there.
     
  8. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Can you give me an example of any place in the world where you see a western people who have integrated with a non-western population? And abandoned their own way of life?
     
  9. grimace Banned Banned

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    you have to give an example of where large numbers of "westerners" have moved to that is non "western".
     
  10. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Thats what I am asking you.
     
  11. grimace Banned Banned

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    what are you referring to now that you changed the subject.
     
  12. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    This is still the subject:

     
  13. grimace Banned Banned

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    are you talking about established countries in modern times?
     
  14. grimace Banned Banned

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    how can i answer that if i dont know of any?
     
  15. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    Because they most likely are not able to meet the expectations of their country of origin or have moved past those expectations. Either way, there should be strict expectations if they want to live elsewhere. If they appear unrealistic, then they shouldn't move there.

    I would expect to receive similar expectations if I decided to live in another country.
     
  16. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    You're right Sam. Most expats living in a non-western environment do not assimilate but import and re-create western enclaves but I think this is only tolerated because expat communities are relatively small and do not threaten the base culture. Also most expats tend to be temporarily placed in these environments. If they don't eventually go home their children invariable attend international schools and then leave for higher education in western countries and whereas some return most do not.

    "Most people in eastern cultures do not expect "foreigners" to change their way of life since they believe that foreigners are representatives of their own way of life even if they immigrate. But the question of assimilation seems to play a massive role in western society, which is quite surprising since I cannot recall any instances where the British, for example, immigrated and abandoned their way of life."

    As I have said those populations didn't have to be absorbed as they were and are incredibly small. They also didn't demand anything from the local people and were often a source of income employing locals in bars, restaraunts, housekeepers what have you. The size of these expat communities is what is most important. In Phnom Penh I know most of the expats socially or by sight because its so tiny, if I leave the city and go to the provinces there are even fewer expats to be seen. If that community began to grow and grow and made demands on the local culture you would see problems for sure.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2009
  17. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    You mean like in South Africa? or India?

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    I bet you live either in the US, Canada or Australia. Which would make your entire post irony with a capital I.

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    Last edited: Jun 11, 2009
  18. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    Oh come on Sam you are speaking of the initial colonization aren't you? Not modern day Aussie land. If you want to milk colonization then change the opening thread to accommodate it because its a different discussion entirely.
     
  19. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    You mean immigrating to improve your lot in lands of opportunity was different when other people were doing it? Or you think its different when people migrate with the intent to take over other people's resources rather than live and work in foreign countries with the prior consent of the people who already live there?
     
  20. Xylene Valued Senior Member

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    Different ethnic groups tend to start marrying into each other after about the third generation of living together. I read a book about American society a decade ago, called 'Families on the Fault Line'; nothing to do with geology, but it concerned the social faultlines between different ethnic groups in the US. The author made the statement that about 80% of marriages in the white community were between different ethic groups. That said, the US has always had a very strong integrationist policy for new immigrants.
     
  21. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    It was wrong but it was done. The point is you cannot expect future generations to carry the burden of guilt of historical actions and frankly they shouldn't have to pay for it. Australia no longer belongs to the original aboriginals, who were treated like shit and are paying the price to this day. But this is a different discussion and has nothing to do with immigration, assimilation and multiculturalism in contemporary societies. If you want to discuss that and not the opening thread make a new thread.
     
  22. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    Yes except the black ones

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    The U.S is a racially divided nation and even though this is changing it still exists and is part of the american mindset. But getting to the the topic at hand....
     
  23. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    All you're doing is reiterating what I said in the OP. The Parsis and Jews have lived in India for generations and it is only now, with westernisation of the country do they marry outside their community.
     

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