On Chivalry and Sexual Violence

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by Tiassa, Jan 9, 2020.

  1. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Uh, what?
     
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  3. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    No worries with you making it all about you. But expect some comments on your behavior if you do that.
    You make it all about you. Someone talks about abuse and you say "I don't abuse women, I am very nice to them and a great guy." And then when someone questions whether making women uncomfortable with your chivalry is a good thing, you get even more defensive.
    No one has called you a rapist. No one has implied you are a rapist. (Not inferred; that means something different.) Which is why it is getting odder and odder that you keep defending that you are not.
     
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  5. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Again, I can only quote examples that relate to me, but I understand why you chose to ignore that. And of course no comment with regards to my attempts at chivalry stand up to scrutiny.
    That's totally false, and used simply as a cop out and when the cases I have referred to and referenced, show the validity of my argument. More to the relevant point, is why you and others tend to ignore those with the usual inane blanket claims.
    False again, I simply have given some examples of chivalry in line with the thread subject.
    No woman has ever got defensive with any act of chivalry that I have initiated. And I would say most in general still appreciate it.
    Not in this thread so far, but certainly in another thread when attempts have been made to gag me.
     
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  7. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    In your own words, you keep posting "examples . . . of my own respectful behaviour."
     
  8. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Like I said, that's false, as all I'm giving is examples I am involved in...and about the fact that its not all men and simply focusing on the perception given by some in the feminist movement, that it is all men which is of course stupid.
    "I just left my local club at Bondi Junction, and was waiting at a crossing for the green walk sign. Once it started flashing I dashed across in my usual haste and happened to look back to see a mid to late 60ish something woman, making her way slowly...she had just about entered the middle of the road and the "dont walk" started flashing as a warning for no more to cross. It was obvious this stressed her out as she attempted to hurry with obvious difficulty, when two young blokes around 25ish, grabbed her either side and proceeded to help her complete the crossing. She barely had time to thank them when reaching the footpath when the two lads made their way back to the other side. So still some courtesy and respect left even with the younger brigade. Great to see and if I wasn't in any hurry to get back home, I would've followed them into the club and bought them a schooner each.
    Obviously they, both of them were raised and taught well about respect, care and courtesy
    Still some hope!"
    Care and courtesy as shown above billvon, don't you agree?
     
  9. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Your own words are false? Or you are claiming you didn't say that?
    No one is saying that.
    That was nice of them.
     
  10. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    You're trying to re-write history. The record is still there.

    We didn't have a lengthy PM exchange.

    Well, I have ongoing problems with some of the stuff that you post to topics such as the current one, like this:

    You make it sound as though your feelings on supposedly rampant feminism are representative of general feeling in society among "many men and women".

    It's hard to tell what kind of thing you even have in mind when you talk about the "over the top movement in the feminist cause". You don't say which "feminist cause" you take issue with, or what is "over the top" about it, or what you think ought to be done about the feminists to put them in their place.

    You can't seem to stop yourself from expressing your opinions on such things, even though you must be aware by now that you are out of step with the views of many people on this forum.

    What is your issue with feminists, exactly? I guess it must be that you feel like the feminist "cause" is somehow threatening to you, personally, or that it will be if it is allowed to get "out of control". Is that it? Tell us what you're actually concerned about.

    Or, better, think carefully about whether you really want to tell us what you think about feminists. Because I'm not expecting you're likely to come out of any discussion on that topic smelling like roses.

    Don't you see? This is the entire question that you invite people to consider every time you post on this topic - especially when you insist on providing anecdotes from your personal history as examples. Is it really true that you're respectful to women, or do you just think you are? Is your idea of respect the same as theirs? If not, whose problem is that - theirs or yours?

    You obviously want to keep the can of worms open, with the worms alive and wriggling. Why? What's your beef?

    I have never called you a rapist. You have called me worse than that. Nor am I aware of any conduct by you that would constitute a sexual assault. I don't really want to get into the issue of sexual harassment again with you. Do you want to go there, again?
     
  11. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    Mod Hat — Some advice

    I want you to think for a moment about a different idea: Rape and DV fantasy as masturbatory exercise, advocated as deliberate attempt to disrupt discussion of sexual violence. And then ask yourself why such behavior, a temper tantrum undertaken, as near as we can tell, because people weren't being sympathetic enough to sexual violence, is acceptable.

    It wasn't a rational argument. It wasn't even an argument. It was just spray of misogynistic rage. Indeed, he was so angry at women he forgot other men he would appeal to actually existed. And, honestly, if men can't figure out that difference, what was the whole Gay Fray, for? Perhaps that sounds like a dumb question, but at the point our neighbor was ranting, he could not recognize the difference between sticking his dick in a woman and taking a dick from a man.

    Okay, okay; that's not really what he was after, but it's what he accomplished. And it wasn't really any attempt to make an argument. There was a woman in the room, and he was going to make some sort of point. And he was so fucking mad about women being too uppity that he couldn't tell the difference.

    These days the staff knows better than to fret about that sort of behavior, per the Administration.

    To the other, Paddoboy, maybe you're scratching your head even more. So let me say your occasion is simply one of those when more than one important point is true.

    First, there is a question of your conduct compared to general societal decency. This is what Bells is scorching you about. And, just for the record, well, okay, so where I am, the two young blokes↑ who, "grabbed her either side and proceeded to help her complete the crossing", actually broke the law, so if she hadn't thanked them, and instead demanded their arrests, we can say what we want about chivalry, but there is also that. The advice I can give you here is that examples of chivalry descriptively invested in prejudicial standards only describe the problem. Moreover, when I can read your post in the same tone Mark Steel uses for recalling old letters to the editor about the youth today, and the word, "innit", it seems an unfortunate sort of comedy. It is true, your general argument sits on the proverbial wrong side of history, and your particular manner of insistence ranges between the sort of silliness that has people banging their heads on the bar, and problematic for being yet another repetition of obsolescence that, if it lives beyond words, only brings harm.

    Second, there is the question of your conduct at Sciforums, which is a separate standard wholly disconnected from general societal decency; and your position, when you stop and think about it, ought to be clear. Compared to what passes muster around here, it ought to be perfectly apparent.

    And when the two coincide, so also should it be clear how these things go.

    Think it through, though, for a moment. Barring the second standard, you're still in problematic range by the first. If you mean something else, then take a breath and figure out what it is. Forging blindly onward isn't going to help.
     
  12. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    ???Ummm, the lengthy PM echange initiated by you with 12 replies? with replies by myself, you and Bells, and at around the 8th post I did "concede" That we probably both [you and I] made some unsupported allegations about each other and that perhaps we should both apologise?
    Anyway James I just wanted to clarify that point and why you say it didn't happen.
    While we rarely cross swords Tiassa, I will heed your advice, which I was going to do anyway...that is forget about this nonsense and get back to some science.
    Let me say that having rarely crossed swords with you before [if ever] you do remind me somewhat of another mod that was here. Kittamaru. A mod who though believing in some sort of deity or ID of us and the universe, did his job without fear nor favor and without any prejudice, illustrated well with his banning of those three god bothering brothers who once infested this forum...the god, Ravish and expletive deleted.
    Anyway thanks for the advice. take care and I'm out of here!!!
     
  13. parmalee peripatetic artisan Valued Senior Member

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    FFS. What the hell is wrong with you?

    Firstly, I think you normally write something more closely resembling English than the above, so I'm not entirely sure as to what's going on there.

    Next, #NotAllMen. Yep. We get it. You've been on this #NotAllMen rampage for 7 or 8 pages now, and have yet to reflect upon why it's problematic.

    And finally, you've also been going on about this "general feeling" for pages now. Who are these "some" responsible for, erm, "giving" this "perception?" Are they real?. Can you name someone, or provide some source material? Or are you simply pulling this out of your ass?
     
  14. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Even though it might miss the focus of this thread, I think all paddoboy might be saying is not all men are misogynists. But, where you go wrong paddoboy is you have this inherent need to portray yourself as a chivalrous super hero. Lol
     
  15. Bells Staff Member

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    The interesting question is why does Paddoboy feel so inclined to keep reminding us that "not all men are misogynists" each time the subject of women and violence towards women comes up? Notice he never did it in The Gay Fray thread, for example..

    It's always when the subject is women and what men do to our bodies and our space. And it follows the same pattern each time, whining about how it's not all men, declare he's really for women's rights and then whine about feminism and how "it's" giving women's rights a bad name, etc.. Then he will start to declare how he's different, and then start to show himself to be the guy who, you know now, goes out of his way to help women.. Same pattern each and every single time.

    https://lithub.com/how-many-ways-can-men-say-not-all-men/

    You'll find it an interesting read.

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    Where he goes wrong is when he loses his shit and starts ranting about feminism and #NotAllMen because for some reason, he self identifies enough when the subject matter is misogyny to have to remind us that not all men are like that..

    By the time he gets to saying how he is not like that and starts describing how good he is to women because he gives them his seat on a bus, it just becomes a parody.
     
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  16. pluto2 Valued Senior Member

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    I think that looks and money are everything to the pretty girls, especially nowadays with the rise of feminism.

    With the rise of feminism women are getting even more picky and the government supports women.

    Good-looking people are treated so much better by everyone and they also have many more options in life.

    But when you're ugly like me and I know that I'm ugly from all the rejections I get then life is going to be much more difficult, especially when it comes to getting affection from pretty girls.

    So my advice to lonely young men and women: just be good-looking , being good-looking can open tons of doors in life.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2020
  17. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    Well, then your solution is obvious. Try to win the affection of ugly girls.
    Maybe start by cleaning up your mind.
     
  18. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Looks and money are everything to some people, no matter what their sex.

    I tend to avoid those people.
    Women aren't getting any more picky than they were. They are just not putting up with things like assault and rape as much. That's a good thing. And the government does indeed support women (and men.) They could do a better job of it, of course.
    As are smart people, and talented people, and hardworking people, and well-educated people, and strong people. Fortunately, you have control over some of those.
    Not if you're skilled, hardworking, interesting and focused.
    My advice to you - improve yourself and the women will come running.
     
  19. pluto2 Valued Senior Member

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    I will never ever date an ugly girl. In fact i'd rather kill myself than win the affection of an ugly girl.

    I think i should never even have been born in the first place.

    I resent my biological parents for bringing me into this cruel world against my wish. Before I was born I had peace.

    The world is telling me that my genetics is of low value and should not be passed on therefore i am completely inferior and should never even had been born in the first place
     
  20. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    pluto2 believes the world owes him a pretty girl that he can keep all for himself.

    It's classic incel misogyny.
     
  21. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    pluto2:

    If this is really what you're thinking, you're heading down a very dark road right now.

    There are professionals who can help you. Please reach out to the appropriate services in your area. They will be able to get you the help you need.
     
  22. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    Well, you know exactly how they feel. Seems fair.
    No point worrying about what should have been. You're stuck with what is.
    You can deal with it or whine about it - your choice.
    Lots of people resent their parents for lots of reasons.
    How do you know? Don't let the Scientologists fool you! Your foetal brain wasn't developed enough to retain accessible memories prior to about the seventh month of gestation - and those would be patchy and chaotic, since you had no language to express your experience, and no external points of reference to relate it to.
    The world is not telling you anything at all. The world has no interest in and no opinion about individuals. Even if you were a celebrity, only a quite small percentage of a single species would be even slightly curious about you or care whether you live or die.
    If you feel worthless and inferior, that's your own personal problem - not the world's. Whether you do anything about it is up to you, not the world.
     
  23. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
    If there is love, there lies beauty.
    and
    ...............................
    a brief musical interlude
     
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