Omicron- A friend or a foe??

Discussion in 'Biology & Genetics' started by KUMAR5, Jan 8, 2022.

  1. KUMAR5 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,221
    But Ace2 and TMPRSS 2 is sane in both Covid19/Delta and Omicron. Either these two types should infect similarily or shoud neither infect lower nor upper respiratory tract
    Means, nothing about immune response or immune protection on Omicron infection is yet clear? I.e. if soecific IgM and IgG antibodies are generated or not, if immunological memory after infection is achieved or not?
    If so how it can happen? Does our defence mechanisn do not consider that omicron is a harmful virus esp for long term?
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,659
    ACE2 is a HUMAN protein that is susceptible to SARS-CoV-2. Not a viral protein. A human protein. So of course it won't infect anything.

    TMPRSS 2 is similar.
    Then I suggest a little more study of the topic.
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. KUMAR5 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,221
    Sorry a bounce. I meant these proteins in himan are expressed both in upper and lower respiratory tract. Than how it become possible Omicron virus to agressively infect just in upper tract but not in lower tract? Covid Delta infect both agressively.

    This charecteristic of Omicron virus creat doubt, how our body take Omicrron virus..a friend or foe:

    "
    Omicron can produce immunity able to neutralise Delta as well, making re-infection with Delta less likely, whereas immunity from Delta provides only limited protection against Omicron, meaning Omicron may re-infect individuals with a prior Delta infection
    https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/how-omicron-make-other-variants-less-dangerous "


    Virus coopies are made by using virus and our genetic material. Why it can not be oossible few virus variant is pursued by our body for its survival benefit against ehich body does not generate immune response?
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    Messages:
    37,052
    I think what stands out is the desperation. The desperate need to find a friend in Covid 19 Omicron is unsettling.

    People can bring you whatever science, but you're determined to simply make believe in order to invent a context by which Covid 19 Omicron is somehow friendly: Why?

    Why are you doing this?

    Why are you trying to hurt people?

    Why would you promote this kind of wishful, dangerous fancy?

    Here we are, these days laer, and you're still at it:

    The only increased immunity you seem to be developing is to science. It's not a healthy circumstance.
     
  8. KUMAR5 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,221
    Doés it mean spike orotein on virus recognize Ace2 and TMPRSS2 in upper respiratory tract but bot these in lower resoiratory tract? Will it mean that these two are different types in these two tracts?

    Then, can it also be possible that Immunity either do not shooot or shoit by considering Omicron virus as friendly or non enemy?
     
  9. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,264
    It's because he's an antivaxxer and a dabbler in bogus medicine, including but possibly not restricted to homeopathy. Previous posts in other threads have shown this.

    For example: http://www.sciforums.com/threads/static-energy-electricity.159824/page-6
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2022
  10. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,659
    No and no.
    Immunity is a complex topic, so deciding that the entire issue is whether immunity "shoots" or "does not shoot" by recognizing a single thing on a virus is a vast oversimplification.
     
  11. KUMAR5 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,221
    Sorry then this issue is still unclear to me. Say how a glass of water drank by two people, in one it reach to stomach via mouth in other not.

    Then nothing really valid in absolute can be decided. One is if it us friend or a foe. We could able to judge immune response against Covid 19 and Delta quite early but just confused sbout Omicron. Probably it us opposite type.
     
  12. KUMAR5 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,221
    No. I am not hurting or intend to hurt anyone. I am júst looming both dides of a still unclear thing. I think you have not read it in my previous post:
    "Omicron can produce immunity able to neutralise Delta as well, making re-infection with Delta less likely, whereas immunity from Delta provides only limited protection against Omicron, meaning Omicron may re-infect individuals with a prior Delta infection
    https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/how-omicron-make-other-variants-less-dangerous"
    What it suggest?
     
  13. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,659
    Let's explain it this way.

    You drink a glass of water with pathogens in it. You might get an infection in your esophagus if it's candida (a fungus.) You might get an infection in your GI tract if it's salmonella (a bacteria.) It may pass through your body without causing an infection. It may even enter your body, live in your intestines, and do you some good (e coli in naive GI tracts.)

    Do you understand how those are all different? That even though all those things are considered pathogens, they may up in different places and do different things?
    In the sense of reducing immunology to a simple Internet meme - that is correct.
    That's easy. Foe. It will kill tens of thousands. That makes it our enemy, even if we're immune to it afterwards.
    Who cares? Delta is responsible for a rapidly diminishing number of cases.

    What you DO care about is how much immunity omicron confers to the rho (i.e. the next) variant. So how much will it confer?
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2022
  14. KUMAR5 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,221
    Thanks. But we are not talking about different virus but talking about variant of same virus. It should demonstrate some resemblance with its origional one. Ok, can we take Omicron as a weaker variant to its origionals shoeing reducing trend in severity esp in proportion to its previous variants?

    ?

    Many times wild search also contribute esp if it look bit logical. Everything is not yet clear in absolute in science. And apple falling logic contributed so much.

    In proportion to total infected it is quite less, in severity, in symptoms, in its penetration, in its recovery period and last but not least in its overriding its past more severe varisnts, it is less serious if not beneficial. Ss you told above if Delta shown rapidly decreasing numbers we can say probably this virus is showing decreasing trend in harming us. Wish probably next variants may be more safer leading to harmless variant on ultimate edp if its orogresdion is nit natural. Virus also get all three types of mutations...beneficial, neutral or harmful. Moreover they also contain some of our materials and may want to survive and exist for long which is only possible if its host survive and exist for long. Good luck.
     
  15. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,659
    Correct. And if you understand that different pathogens target different tissue types, then you should have no problem understanding that different virus variants will targets different tissues as well. And in this case, it still targets cells in both locations - it just now replicates more rapidly in the upper respiratory tissues.
    It does. It still targets both types of lung tissue. It's not like it suddenly started infecting peripheral nervous tissue or something.
    I disagree. Wild guesses don't have much place in science. INFORMED guesses have a much higher success rate.
    I assume you are talking about Newton. The important part of that story was that it happened to Newton, a genius of his time who had already invented calculus. It's not the apple that is key there.
    Agreed. But if it is half as fatal and four times as contagious, it will still kill twice as many people.

    And we don't even know that it's half as fatal. It SEEMS that way - but that could also be because we are better at masking and vaccinating.
    That's a better way to say it. And if the death rate goes down, I would agree with you.

    It is currently going up.
     
  16. KUMAR5 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,221
    Does it mean Omicron also infect and replicate in lower respiratory tract similar to Covid 19 or Delta but replicate more rapidly just in upper respiratory tract? Then people should have got severe infections at par or more than its previous variants in number? Is it observed?

    Does it mean Omicron is weaker strain than its previous variants so lag behind in race i.e. penetration in deep tissues?

    ]quote]I disagree. Wild guesses don't have much place in science. INFORMED guesses have a much higher success rate.
    I assume you are talking about Newton. The important part of that story was that it happened to Newton, a genius of his time who had already invented calculus. It's not the apple that is key there.[/quote]
    Something is better than nothing. Say foe example, three friends were quite hungry thought to go to a nearby jungle(wild place) to get some fruits. All were not knowing how to climb a tree and pluck the fruits. One went and collected many fallen fruits without much efforts. 2nd one also went shake the trees and plucked fruits by throwing some stone wildly and got still more fruits. 3rd one bit lazy and planned one thought I do not know tree climbing and plucking the fruits. Sp ist I shall learn these and than on;y I will go now why to waste time unnecessarily. So just sit at home and got no fruit so starved. What is rational here?

    I think ration is 1:4/5 in contagious and just .5 percent in severity and .2 percent in death. Not so?


    In proportion to total infected it is going down. Probably proportion is a better estimation.
     
  17. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,659
    Yes. Slower in lower respiratory tract, faster in upper tract during in vitro studies.

    https://www.the-scientist.com/news-...imes-faster-than-delta-in-bronchi-study-69540
    Nope. That's just an example of how it's different than previous strains.

    Right. But because of the higher infection rate it is killing more people.
     
  18. KUMAR5 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,221
    Thanks for link. It is clear now. However we may need to go into detailed history about Virus behavaiour. Does it go on diminishing its severity in its survival benefit i.e survive by surviving its hosts. Somewhat Live and let live....esp if their survival is not threatened.

    Moreover, we may also need to understand that since virus in making its copies use our material, can that material also impact characteristic of new variants in our benefit?

    We may need to see the published data on that Omicron is killing more people even in number than its preceding variants.
     
  19. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    Messages:
    37,052
    Coin toss: If heads means I don't believe you, tails means I accept the implications of believing you; it becomes a question of whether your behavior is sinister or stupid.

    Consider your insistence↑: "Then nothing really valid in absolute can be decided. One is if it [is] friend or a foe."

    This is either low-grade wordplay ("nothing really valid in absolute") or blithering ignorance ("if it is as friend or foe"). Again, there is no context by which Covid 19 is a friend. Simply holding out on an article of faith, insisting on some pretense of uninformed uncertainty, is dangerously stupid:

    You've been told↑, before↑ about other aspects of Covid infection, but seem inclined to ignore those considerations because they are inconvenient to starry-eyed romanticism.

    While the raw death toll projections eye numbers suggesting fifteen percent comparative death rate to Delta, the fact of over tenfold comparative infection rate for Omicron expects a higher number of dead for this variant.

    Meanwhile, the United States now faces an even more grim potential:

    One researcher is predicting that the U.S. will experience the highest death rate from the omicron variant than many other developed nations, despite the variant being less severe.

    Eric Topol, a professor of molecular medicine at Scripps Research Institute, tweeted a series of data points that compared the daily COVID-19 case count and deaths per million people for seven large nations. Topol said the U.S. has a much higher baseline of deaths per capita because there was a relative lack of containment during an earlier surge of the delta variant and a lack of vaccinations.


    (Ali↱)

    Beyond the death tolls, though, it seems absurd to describe future treatment of diabetes and kidney disease as friendly outcomes. And we also come back to what NIH Director Collins reminded, last year, about SARS-CoV-2 and blood clotting, because the news out of South Africa, two weeks ago brings important insight:

    "A recent study in my lab revealed that there is significant microclot formation in the blood of both acute COVID-19 and long COVID patients," Resia Pretorius, head of the science department at Stellenbosch University in South Africa, wrote Wednesday in an op-ed.

    Pretorius writes that healthy bodies are typically able to efficiently break down blood clots through a process called fibrinolysis. But, when looking at blood from long COVID-19 patients, "persistent microclots are resistant to the body's own fibrinolytic processes."

    Pretorius' team in an analysis over the summer found high levels of inflammatory molecules "trapped" in the persistent microclots observed in long COVID-19 patients, which may be preventing the breakdown of clots.

    Because of that, cells in the body's tissues may not be getting enough oxygen to sustain regular bodily functions, a condition known as cellular hypoxia.


    (Migdon↱)

    There is no reasonable definition of friend, friendly, or friendship that applies, here.

    And that's the problem: There are myriad questions about Covid 19 variations, and how the disease works, and its implications this side of mortality, but trying to frame this range as a question of friend or foe requires an extraordinary pretense of friendship not otherwise functionally tenable. Again↑: There is no manner of calling Covid 19 Omicron a friend that does not require an extraordinary definition of friendship. The idea that the question would even be structured as such very nearly seems to be its own question. And this persistent↑, even desperate↑ need to find a friend in Omicron really does become a question all its own.

    The differences between Covid 19 variations are important to understanding how to respond collectively; as a public health consideration, this is one quickly ascending to the importance of a question for our species. The idea of disease management strategy at a public health scale is actually kind of soul-searing, but nowhere in trying to figure out how to bargain between death and chronic illness can the human species afford to pretend some kind of friendship with this or any variation of SARS-Cov-2.

    What can be assessed to be a benefit of disruptive evolution is determined many generations later, and there is nothing about the time and circumstance of disruption that ought to be considered friendly. And while there is no eugenic pretense to adequately justify such danger in our moment, neither is the superstition of seeking friendship in Covid 19 Omicron so comprehensive or even thoughtful.
    ____________________

    Notes:

    Ali, Shirin. "Why the US could have a higher death rate from omicron than other countries". The Hill. 11 January 2022. TheHill.com. 17 January 2022. https://bit.ly/3Iu2H6P

    Migdon, Brooke. "South African scientist thinks she may have solved the mystery of long COVID-19, which afflicts 100M people". The Hill. 5 January 2022. TheHill.com. 17 January 2022. https://bit.ly/3A4UTFv
     
  20. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    Messages:
    37,052
    It's not so much that Twitter is inflicting an unusual amount of bad news; this is kind of how it goes:

    Omicron exacerbates chronic illnesses such as CVD, CKD, COPD, cancer etc. In cardiology, we have seen increased heart attacks in those with COVID-19 that can present weeks later. So, let"s stop with incidental COVID-19 narrative already.

    (@BAshbyMD↱)

    ‡​

    … Top UK scientist warns that "In the last week—there's now evidence that T-cells…get damaged the same way that HIV and other RNA-virus damage T-cell immunity" …

    (@DrEricDing↱)

    Those were waiting for me, today, just because. If I actually go looking for the updates, there isn't really a whole lot of good news, just degrees of more or less bad news.

    That's two doctors. And this is Omicron.
     
  21. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,659
    Nope. The virus is more "I will live and you will die." Deaths have increased from an average of 900/day in November to 1800 a day today.
    Again, no. It takes over human cells to reproduce itself; that does not benefit us.
    You can look here:

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
     
  22. KUMAR5 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,221
    Thanks. I feel quite convinced. I shall ask if anything new come to my mind.
     
  23. KUMAR5 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,221

    It made me to think and evaluate some personal experience. These things happen on getting Covid 19. 1. Progression of Infection and its complications. 2. Medication 3. Immunity developed post infection esp antibody related. In addition to these, antibodies/ immunity developed by Vaccination.

    Don't we need to check all these factors as real responsible factor to better understand about post-Covid 19 infection complication?
     

Share This Page