Oklo: Natural Nuclear Reactors

Discussion in 'Physics & Math' started by CheskiChips, Sep 17, 2008.

  1. CheskiChips Banned Banned

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    http://www.ocrwm.doe.gov/factsheets/doeymp0010.shtml


    Speed of light may have changed recently:
    http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn6092


    The second article is largely speculative other than discussing the work of a few specific scientists. However the first one is very informative.
     
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  3. rpenner Fully Wired Valued Senior Member

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  5. CheskiChips Banned Banned

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    I haven't yet reviewed the first three, I am going to. However the fourth I don't think the author disagrees (that they aren't fixed constants)...? Are you trying to imply he does?
     
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  7. rpenner Fully Wired Valued Senior Member

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    Lamoreaux is the author of the 2004 paper which found that there was a change. He now lectures that what he did was establish error bars around zero rather than find significant change.

    So he changed his mind about the story the data tells.
     
  8. CheskiChips Banned Banned

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    In either case; natural nuclear reactors seem amazing to me.
     
  9. Pete It's not rocket surgery Registered Senior Member

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    They certainly are amazing.
    Perhaps a little less so when you consider that natural Uranium at the time was higher in U-235 than it is today, making it much easier to initiate a reaction. Also, a "high degree of engineering, physics, and acute, detailed attention" really isn't necessary to build a reactor... only to build a safe, controllable one with useful power output.
     
  10. BenTheMan Dr. of Physics, Prof. of Love Valued Senior Member

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    I seem to recall some Australian astronomers looking at supernovae (maybe a guy named Webb?) who had established some evidence for a change in the fine structure constant. Does anyone know the status of this?
     
  11. rpenner Fully Wired Valued Senior Member

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    That was in 1999 but I don't think Webb was the driving force behind these papers.
    http://www.aip.org/pnu/1999/split/pnu410-1.htm

    http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/9802029
    http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/9803165 * This is where the result was obtained *
    http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/9808021
    http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/9908047
    http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0012419 * More results *
    http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0012422
    http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0012539 * More results *
    http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0112093
    http://arxiv.org/abs/hep-ph/0201303
    http://arxiv.org/abs/hep-ph/0205340 * Early review article*
    http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0305066
    http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0309107
    http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0401094 * Different lab weighs in with constant constants *
    http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0403009
    http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0404008
    http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0404042
    http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0407011
    http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0407141
    http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0407579
    http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0408017
    http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0410074
    http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0412649
    http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0501454
    http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0510072
    http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0511180
    http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0512287 * Different lab weighs in with zero change in alpha *
    http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0601034
    http://arxiv.org/abs/nucl-th/0601050
    http://arxiv.org/abs/cond-mat/0603607
    http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0604188
    http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0608261 * Review by V.V. Flambaum *
    http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0610326
    http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0612407 * V.V. Flambaum outlines dispute *
    http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0701220
    http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0703042 * Different lab weighs in with insignificant results *
    http://arxiv.org/abs/0704.2301
    http://arxiv.org/abs/0705.0849
    http://arxiv.org/abs/0705.3704 * V.V. Flambaum switches from time-variation to Potential Well variation ?? *
    http://arxiv.org/abs/0708.0569
    http://arxiv.org/abs/0708.3677
    http://arxiv.org/abs/0711.4428
    http://arxiv.org/abs/0711.4536
    http://arxiv.org/abs/0712.3621
    http://arxiv.org/abs/0801.1874
    http://arxiv.org/abs/0805.0461
    http://arxiv.org/abs/0806.3081
    http://arxiv.org/abs/0807.3218
    http://arxiv.org/abs/0807.4943
    http://arxiv.org/abs/0808.2518

    Ned Wright has shown how these results compare so that there is actually very little evidence for variation of the fine structure constant with time.

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  12. BenTheMan Dr. of Physics, Prof. of Love Valued Senior Member

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    Thanks rpenner. I think I'll check out a few of those papers over coffee

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  13. CheskiChips Banned Banned

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    Is the x axis (Z) in time?

    By the way, I am not sure even it was occurring there would be substantial evidence. Not unless there was some irregular rapid jump in \(\alpha\) would any change be detected in the physical world. Since even the laws of nuclear decay have some minor probabilities the distinguishing between the two seems impossible. It is nonetheless something of a philosophical concept of interest.

    And you posted a couple too many for me to have gone through; but thanks for the source citing, appreciate it.
     
  14. rpenner Fully Wired Valued Senior Member

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    z is in redshift which to good statistical strength can be useds as a surrogate for (billions) years in the past. The scale is not linear presumably because the intent was to plot measured change in alpha vs. time when the time isn't known but the reshift (z) was. (The exact relation between z and time is model-dependent so since we are arguing models, we can avoid quibbles by plotting measurement-versus-measurement).
     

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