Of bullfightings

Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by Syzygys, Jun 17, 2008.

  1. Syzygys As a mother, I am telling you Valued Senior Member

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    You didn't get the point. A bear or lion would attack YOU, not the CAPE.

    Slight difference....
     
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  3. Prince_James Plutarch (Mickey's Dog) Registered Senior Member

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    Syzygys:

    I'm actualyl not sure about this. I don't know if they can be tricked like that. I know that you can trick animals by appearing bigger than you are and making big noises.
     
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  5. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Whats the difference between factory killing and "normal" slaughtering? In both cases they are electrocuted and beheaded. I think the killing by injection has been discontinued everywhere.

    The only differences are in kosher or halal killing, where if you bleed out the animal, any prior electrocution is additional stress, since it may not always work the first time around; they repeatedly shock the animal until it becomes unconscious.
     
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  7. Enmos Staff Member

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    No he can just appear in the next fight. Eventually he'll be killed.
    Bullfighting, imo, is akin to torturing a bull.
     
  8. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    I think Prince J is right. Didn't you ever read Ferdinand?
     
  9. Enmos Staff Member

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    About the bull not being killed when he wins ?
     
  10. Prince_James Plutarch (Mickey's Dog) Registered Senior Member

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    Occasionally, if the bull has fought bravely, and by petition of the public or the matador, the president of the plaza may grant the bull an indulto. This is when the bull’s life is spared and allowed to leave the ring alive and return to the ranch where it came from. However, few bulls survive the trip back to the ranch. With no veterinarian services at the plaza, most bulls die either while awaiting transportation or days later after arriving at their original ranch. Death is due to dehydration, infection of the wounds and loss of blood sustained during the fight. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullfighting

    APparently, few survive it back owing to the complications. That stinks, I must say, but still it shows that there is a recognition of bravery.
     
  11. Enmos Staff Member

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    If the bulls would choose to fight, I'd agree with you. But they are forced.
     
  12. Syzygys As a mother, I am telling you Valued Senior Member

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    Well, the test of the pudding....
     
  13. CharonZ Registered Senior Member

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    No, in both cases they are put unconscious by bolt (cows) or electricity (poultry and pigs). Then they are cut and bled out just as in kosher slaughtering. I only know the German law (as I mentioned) and no other means of killing (e.g. beheading) is accepted there.

    That is wrong. Only trained persons that are able to make them unconscious in one go are allowed to slaughter.
    Again, the laws requires killing of animal which a minimum of pain and thus requires stunning before bleeding them out. In fact, many animal welfare groups are against kosher killing, because it does no allow stunning the animal before killing it.

    That being said there were (and quite possibly still are) slaughterhouses that allowed untrained staff to kill, and in these cases the animals did suffer. However they were charged with animal cruelty and at least one of them (the one I visited with a local animal welfare group) got closed due to too many transgressions again animal protection laws.
     
  14. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Usually animals are beheaded by automatic machines. That is standard practice in large factory farms.

    The training makes no difference. All animals (like all humans sentenced to death by electric chair) are not the same. Some will not get knocked out.

    Reminds me of this:
    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/01/30/eveningnews/main3773183.shtml


    The punchline:
     
  15. CharonZ Registered Senior Member

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    As I said, I only know the German laws. There you kill the animal the same way as kosher killing. With the addition of stunning.

    So by the same argument how will ensure that every kosher killing is less painful? In theory everyone can kill then.
    Training does make a difference.
    In effect you are just arguing that stunning the animal is more painful than the actual killing. This is hard to swallow if you see it in real life how some animals struggle while bleeding out.

    And the point is, if you want to get as much kosher as regular meat (and to the same price), again the animal will suffer as everything industrialized will do.
     
  16. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    If the animal struggles while bleeding out, its not being done properly, I've seen halal killings, the animal becomes unconscious almost immediately.
     
  17. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    How? People don't even pass out that fast. My grandpa's pigs didn't either.
     
  18. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Its the knife and the cut. It causes an immediate drop in blood pressure and causes unconsciousness.

    Its also very quick

    If you have the stomach for it, see it here

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcCCdhv8-sU
     
  19. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    I understand the cut being critical, but how does the knife make and animal pass out?
     
  20. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    See edit. It has to be a very sharp knife and a very complete cut, not a nick in the jugular.
     
  21. Prince_James Plutarch (Mickey's Dog) Registered Senior Member

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    Enmos:

    Consent is pretty much outside the purview of animals in any circumstance.

    Bulls for bull fighting are especially bred, I believe, for the activity.
     
  22. Prince_James Plutarch (Mickey's Dog) Registered Senior Member

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    Syzygys

    If I ever happen upon a lion or bear, I will try to freak it out. But I don't intend to be in the woods anytime soon.
     
  23. Simon Anders Valued Senior Member

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    Actually I think consent can be ascertained for a wide variety of activities with animals. If it can't I think we can assume it wasn't given. For me human noblity would include a more profound respect for animals than is shown in bullfighting and even in the breeding.
     

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