Yes, as I said earlier logic produces a simulcrum, a simulation of reality, a virtual existence but certainly not "the reality" so to speak. Therefore I ask, is it possible to "find" or " percieve" objective reality with the use of logic? According to the above "logic" or reasoning, No must be the only answer. [back on thread track] "Logic is the tool used for qualified speculation" Like a gambler at the race track trying to assess the horses history and current condition, applying probablity and wallah! he has a potential winner. It is the purpose of the thread to attempt to open up the possibility that objective reality is available if the use of logic and reason is "suspended" and that this approach is inspired by Buddhist philosophy. so to answer the question: "If objective reality is an actuality but is unavailable to human perception what is it that prevents us from discerning objective reality?" I would answer: the use of logic and "reasoning" If one suspends the use of logic then what are we left with? I would answer : "self evident truth", "self evident reality", "self evident objectivity". In other words: "an apple is a thing we call "apple" because it is what it is and nothing more nor nothing less"