# Obama's War: Grounds for Impeachment?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Giambattista, Mar 23, 2011.

1. ### Giambattistasssssssssssssssssssssssss sssssValued Senior Member

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So are you excusing this, because of wrong precedent in the past?

And a question...

Is this a war yet? Can we call it what it is?

Or is there still a grotesque semantical dance taking place?

Meanwhile, in the last few weeks, reports and rumors of the true nature of these "freedom" fighters for democracy and righteousness... a rebel faction sees fit to engage in mini-genocide of black Africans.
Oh, you see, that's why Gaddafi is so dangerous. He is a bad role model, and monkey see, monkey do. They must have learned their brutal tactics from the guy they oppose.

LIBYA: Rebels execute black immigrants while forces kidnap others

Love this one from the comment section...

Transitional peaceful world order? Someone has New World Order stars in their eyes.

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Oh.. heh heh. Well, it didn't happen QUITE like that. It was more removed. More through proxy, if that's a proper usage of the word.
But this guy seems to have a better grip on reality than the previous Mohamed commenter.

Libyan rebels massacre black Africans

Question for all the gung ho anti-Gaddafi, pro-rebellion Americans et al: what happens if people like this succeed in overthrowing Gaddafi? Would the forecasted genocide on behalf of Gaddafi's forces just give way to another in the making by the freedom fighters?

Last edited: Apr 20, 2011

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3. ### joepistoleDeacon BluesValued Senior Member

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What you want the US government to run Egypt or would you prefer to let civil violence break out in in Middle East? You think oil prices are high now, just wait. You will not like where that will take you.

Two the US has not and has no intentions of putting feet on the ground or exercising direct control of the operations in Egypt. The operation in Libya is a NATO affair and being driven by our European allies.

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5. ### keith1Guest

Giambattista's War: Grounds for Coffee?

An unreal dark, watered-down decaf.

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7. ### Me-Ki-GalBannedBanned

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I didn't read the post or comments . I will . I just wanted to comment on the tittle and its implications. People are so quick to speak impeachment now a days. Maybe people always have considering we hold our leaders accountable. I thing is for sure " some leaders have done some bad bad things . Obama I believe is an American and loves his country . He may have smoked to much weed and has some crazy ideas ( Mostly indoctrination just like the rest of us) I think he is doing the best he can given the climate. Living in a reactive society bombarded with information makes everybody confused on which way to go.
I believe we live in uncharted territory because of population of humans being near full capacity. Something new on the time scale of earth. I will let the Man do his job . He is our president and even though I don't agree with some of the bull shit stumping that comes out of his mouth , I stand behind Him because He is My President

8. ### Me-Ki-GalBannedBanned

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Ally North took the fall. Memory fails . Some one else was involved .

9. ### keith1Guest

Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam. That's the gist of it.

10. ### Giambattistasssssssssssssssssssssssss sssssValued Senior Member

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Have you seen the one of Rumsfeld sucking off bin Laden while sacrificing a baby?

Meanwhile, via the Rense World 3 Ring Circus...

Libyan rebel has curious Star of David-esque tattoo.

Israel plays both sides? Money money money $. 11. ### Giambattistasssssssssssssssssssssssss sssssValued Senior Member Messages: 4,878 Yep, if the US Executive branch doesn't un-Constitutionally launch wars from time to time, we wouldn't have any gas. Right. I have this funny feeling: no matter who is in power in Egypt or elsewhere,$ per barrel is going to continue to climb. Why is that?

And nothing has changed in Egypt. Same package, same destination, but they changed the stamp. No difference. So much for democratic revolution.

Of course they don't have to put people in Egypt, since the military junta is a US run puppet! Like I said, that theatrical stunt of kicking Mubarak to the curb changed nothing. Just ask the protesters who are now getting arrested for continuing to protest this exchanging of the guard.

Michael Scheuer, former CIA, takes CNN bimbos to the cleaners...

As well, CIA whistleblower Susan Lindauer agrees with my general take on it: you want to destabilize? You want chaos? Topple Gaddafi, and you're going to get it.

Last edited: Apr 21, 2011
12. ### CowboyMy Aim Is TrueValued Senior Member

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3,707
It's not that I'm excusing it. I've just reached the point where I'm no longer surprised by anything our government does.

13. ### joepistoleDeacon BluesValued Senior Member

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WRONG, no matter what we do in the Middle East it is not going to fix our energy issues. It is all a giant deception aimed at appeasing certian special interests groups who have a signficant interest in keeping things the way they are; that would include international oil companies and the all oil exporting nations. Bush I's Iraq War was a complete waste of money and blood.

No matter who controls the oil they are going to seek the highest possible price and keep competitive fuels out of the market. Our government could bust up the oil cartel almost over night and solve the nations energy and employment woes in one stroke. But it would hurt those special interest groups. So it is not going to happen.

Probably because you are right in this instance.
Who knows what will happen in Egypt? They may get a democracy but the odds are they will replace one dicator with another. As for chaos and Gadhafi, it is already there. With or without Gadhafi, there will be unrest and chaos in Libya. Let me remind you it was Gadhafi's government that self destructed and caused the current chaos.

The question is do you want to use the opportunity to get rid of a untrustworthy terrorist, Gadhafi? Our European allies are all for it and Obama has agreed on the condition that the Europeans take the lead and responsiblity which they have done.

Last edited: Apr 22, 2011
14. ### Odin'IzmProcrastinatorRegistered Senior Member

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1,851
The reason they chose Libya over any other is that Quaddafi is easy to scapegoat, and also the fact that Libya has very clean oil, it has a low sulphate count, and is therefore much cheaper to treat in Europe's distilleries than the Saudi oil which over the past few decades has gotten more 'sour' (SR bacteria from sulphates entering wells).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-13046127

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12821505

The EU economy does not need this conflictto carry on for a long time, but at the same time it is making a profit from it's existence with rebels running on the battle feild with shinny new FN-FALs and Nato anti aircraft systems. From what I've seen, it was FRANCE, not the US that started to stir this shit up. You see the world from the US news outlet, and I can tell you that the picture here has been rather different. The US has been late on the scene, with their official announcements almost 3 days after the EU started to mobilize (ships were already off the coast of Libya within days to "evacuate foreign nationals". The people running around on this side of the pond and pushing legislation to the security council, selling weapons and giving credit, have been the French, not the US.

http://www.euronews.net/2007/08/02/speculation-over-french-arms-deal-with-libya/

http://www.euronews.net/2011/02/23/foreigners-race-to-flee-violence-in-libya/

The navy is a relatively cheap means of trying to lift the Dollar (which just now is failing), you already had a force in the Med so it was a convenient option, especially as it is cheaper to get rid of tomahawk missiles than to allow them to pass their use-by date. He has effectively used the cheapest means available to increase the dollar's buying power at a time when you need to deal with foreign debts, and get rid of munitions which were not getting used, but rather being paid for to be kept in a state of readiness.

Last edited: Apr 23, 2011
15. ### Giambattistasssssssssssssssssssssssss sssssValued Senior Member

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4,878
We need to invent a new award.

Butcher of the Year.

Obama is already nominated for it.

Is that a bad idea?

16. ### Giambattistasssssssssssssssssssssssss sssssValued Senior Member

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4,878
Will they take responsibility as well for any war crimes committed by the peace loving freedom movement?

Barry "The Butcher" Soetoro. Legendary.

17. ### joepistoleDeacon BluesValued Senior Member

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Got any examples of said war crimes? One generally need a crime to be committed before you start throwing people in jail, unless of course you are a totalitarian.

18. ### Giambattistasssssssssssssssssssssssss sssssValued Senior Member

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4,878
Got any examples of war crimes committed by someone like, say, Saif Qaddafi? After all, the International Criminal Court claimed that he's a war criminal. Then again, they also said they had him in custody...

There have been stories since nearly day one about massacres. If you are really interested... check the top of this page, I reckon. Not that it stops with that.

Of course, we are told to believe whatever the gov tells us about Qaddafi's crimes, but naturally the evidence will need to be massive to prove anything about the opposite side. that's the way it always goes. You oppose the U.S. or some NATO coalition, you are guilty by default.

Unless of course you are NATO. Then again, jail takes too long. Just bomb the F*** out of them usually does the trick.

Last edited: Aug 26, 2011
19. ### nirakar( i ^ i )Registered Senior Member

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3,383
Who is the last US president who never authorized the US military to attack people in other nations without first getting a declaration of war signed by Congress?

I think undeclared wars should be an impeachable offense because it is the president taking a power assigned to congress as a check on the presidency in the system of checks and balances. The problem is that congress has made it clear that congress wants war and supports war but does not want to have the responsibility of declaring war. How can you impeach the president for taking a power from congress which is a power that the congress wants to give away?

The founders were correct that congress not the president should have this power but congress won't do it's job.

20. ### joepistoleDeacon BluesValued Senior Member

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That is not the issue. You are the one who wants to put people in jail. In order to do that, one ususally needs proof of a crime.

There have certianly been a lot of stories on both sides. But you should still have some evidence before you go around throwing people into jails or worse.
This sounds like a paranoid fantasy to me. One can speculate of many things, but evidence is necessary if you want to throw people in jail - assuming you are not a totalitarian and believe in human rights.

It is a well known fact that Libya (Gadhafi) supported terrorism. He admitted as much when he paid damages for Lockerbee. His erratic actions speak for themselves. And his people, Libyans speak even louder. They are the ones who have been defecting from his government en masse. And they are the ones who have been celebrating in major Libyan cities. And it is the Libyan's who have been shedding their blood to defeat Gadhafi, not Europeans or Americans.

21. ### PinwheelBannedBanned

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2,424
If Obama is looking for a new spin doctor, I think joepistole is an excellent candidate.

22. ### Captain KremmenAll aboard, me Hearties!Valued Senior Member

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After the experience in Iraq of what happens if you have no post war plan, surely there is a Libya post war plan.
Surely a "We need change", sharp as a knife, basket ball playing President like Obama wouldn't make that dumb mistake.
There is a plan, isn't there?

Curious coincidence.
Cost of sending a Tornado on a single sortie, about £30,000, just for the fuel!
(Bombs are extra)
Number of Air Missions in Libya to date, 30,000
Estimated number of Civilian deaths, 30,000

Whoa. Good shot, Obama! Straight into the casket.

Last edited: Aug 26, 2011
23. ### Fraggle RockerStaff Member

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24,690
Congress??? How about the shit-for-brains bloody-useless Supreme Court? It's their job to make sure everyone respects the Constitution. Since the beginning of this endless Rooseveltian Era, the Constitution has been nothing but toilet paper and the Supremes just sit on their butts and watch it happen.