Oath Keepers: Defenders of Liberty or Peddlers of Paranoia?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by madanthonywayne, Oct 20, 2009.

  1. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

    Their motto is "Not on our Watch". They number in the thousands and are comprrised mainly of active duty armed servicemen, police, and firefighters. Their stated goal is to prevent the rise of aa dictatorship in the United States.
    Since former U.S. Army paratrooper and Yale Law School grad Stewart Rhodes founded the national organization months ago, state groups have rapidly sprung up, with highway patrolmen, military, county sheriffs, police officers and, according to the group, U.S. Department of Homeland Security employees signing on to stand against overreaching federal authority.

    “I’m getting calls from all over this country from concerned people,” said Alias, who lives in Willow Creek and is the editor of a new publication, the Gallatin County Patriot. “The alarm is out there.”

    While in office, President George W. Bush used the war on terror to make Americans afraid, Alias said. The goal was to expand executive power under the guise of national security concerns, he said. Under that leadership, the Patriot Act and other maneuvers skirting established legal protections eroded constitutional mandates. Those actions expanded federal authority over the states and increased surveillance of American citizens, Alias said.

    “Fear should not be a part of our daily lives,” he said.

    And now, President Barack Obama isn’t reversing those executive maneuvers, Rhodes said.

    Before forming Oath Keepers, Rhodes — a former firearms instructor and Libertarian who served on Texas Republican Rep. Ron Paul’s staff — had been warning folks for years about the dangers he sees in America’s increasingly centralized power structure.

    But during the past several months, as a new administration stepped up, Rhodes’ message has started to resonate with a larger segment of Americans, he said.

    “They’re kind of freaking out,” Rhodes said of the conservative flock.

    Meanwhile, Alias, a Vietnam vet who speaks with a drawl befitting someone who spent most of his life in Tennessee, has also grown increasingly alarmed. He’s scared his grandchildren won’t have the freedoms he grew up with, he said.

    So, he’s working to revive the concept of liberty in the American people.

    “That shouldn’t be a threat to anyone,” he said.
    They have a iist of ten orders they all pledge not to obey:
    1. We will NOT obey any order to disarm the American people.
    2. We will NOT obey any order to conduct warrantless searches of the American people, their homes, vehicles, papers, or effects -- such as warrantless house-to house searches for weapons or persons.
    3. We will NOT obey any order to detain American citizens as “unlawful enemy combatants” or to subject them to trial by military tribunal.
    4. We will NOT obey orders to impose martial law or a “state of emergency” on a state, or to enter with force into a state, without the express consent and invitation of that state’s legislature and governor.
    5. We will NOT obey orders to invade and subjugate any state that asserts its sovereignty and declares the national government to be in violation of the compact by which that state entered the Union.
    6. We will NOT obey any order to blockade American cities, thus turning them into giant concentration camps.
    7. We will NOT obey any order to force American citizens into any form of detention camps under any pretext.
    8. We will NOT obey orders to assist or support the use of any foreign troops on U.S. soil against the American people to “keep the peace” or to “maintain control” during any emergency, or under any other pretext. We will consider such use of foreign troops against our people to be an invasion and an act of war.
    9. We will NOT obey any orders to confiscate the property of the American people, including food and other essential supplies, under any emergency pretext whatsoever.
    10. We will NOT obey any orders which infringe on the right of the people to free speech, to peaceably assemble, and to petition their government for a redress of grievances.
    Here's the list along with the justification for each point: Orders We Will Not Obey
    The list of orders they wont obey and their pledge to uphold the constitution all sound great, but here's the bit that have some people worried:

    "We say if the American people decide it's time for a revolution, we'll fight with you."
    Some see this group as one more example of the rise of militia type groups in the US. Indeed, the Oath Keepers are monitored by a group called "Hatewatch".

    So, right wing wacko conspiracy theory nutjobs, or defenders of the constitution? You make the call.

    Last edited: Oct 20, 2009
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  3. Ganymede Valued Senior Member

    I saw the leader of this organization get interviewed on Hardball yesterday. Despite the spokesman being very congenial Chris Matthews came out swinging and called him a racist. Then the guy retorted that he's 1/3rd Mexican. That pretty much derailed Chris for the rest of the interview. I like the idea behind this movement, however I would implore them to speak out when a Republican was in office, so we don't get things like the Patriot Act signed into law, or starting preemptive wars in sovereign countries and violating international laws. These all went against the Constitution but the Constitution protectors were no where to be found when we needed them most.
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  5. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

    Sounds reasonable enough, except for the timing. These guys were apparently content to sit on their hands for years on end while Bush drove a truck through the Constitution, but the moment a Democrat is in the White House everyone's suddenly a Constitutional activist.
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  7. superstring01 Moderator

    Timing is everything, isn't it?

  8. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

    Mega dittos Quad.
  9. Cowboy My Aim Is True Valued Senior Member

    Just because the organization was created a few months ago doesn't mean these guys only became concerned about big government a few months ago.
  10. Pandaemoni Valued Senior Member

    They still sound more than a little paranoid to me. A lot of their rhetoric is the sort Tim McVeigh was using.
  11. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

    Have you really listened to the Democrats and Liberals for the last 40 years? how about the last 9? they are just as parinoid as Timmy Mac, and the liberal radicles have murdered more people than Timmy Mac.
  12. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

    Whow is Timmy Mac, what is it that liberals have been saying tha makes you think they want a totalitarian state? And does anything the last Republican administration did make you even remotely concerned about your liberties?
  13. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

    Saying? How about actions? and were do you come up with the idea that the Democrats are any more concerned about your liberties?

    Obama hasn't recinded one of the homeland security measures, in point of fact they have added even more;


    House easily passes anti-terror bill
    Updated 1/9/2007 10:11 PM ET E-mail | Save | Print |

  14. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

    Ah, joe, I don't have enough space or time to list all of the point of legislation and policy of the Liberals and Democrats that undermine our Constitution, Bill of Rights, and Freedoms.
  15. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

    That's hilarious. While Bush pushed through the patriot act and committed treason, you said nothing. This is obviously just another cynical ploy by the cons to gin up fear.

    I do have a problem with not allowing us to declare a state of emergency. By preventing this when it could be necessary, they are threatening our very lives.
  16. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

    I didn't think you did

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  17. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

    If increasing port security is the issue in point, I think it is a good move on the part of the Democrats.

    On the Demoract side, they have restored habeus corpus and stopped torture.
  18. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

    if your mouth's shut it doesn't count
  19. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

    your interperatation or you know someone who job is it is to determine that?
  20. Pandaemoni Valued Senior Member

    Yes, I really have, and if anyone thinks that the liberals or the conservatives are really angling to establish a totalitarian state, then they are, frankly, delusional and those around around them should seriously think about getting them professional psychiatric help.

    The political landscape has seriously polarized. We are now at the point where both sides refuse to engage in legitimate debate and instead seize on any excuse to demonize the other. It's never that Bush and Cheney are heavy-handed and just plain wrong, it's that they are evil war criminals. It's not that Obama's view of economics and social policy is misguided and flawed, it's that he's a Communist whose main goal is to establish a totalitarian state (assuming he can't simply turn control of the U.S. over to the U.N.), plus . . . oh I dunno, let's just pretend he's not even American and a Muslim.

    It's all stupid, as is anyone who believes in that shit on either side. Actually "stupid" is the wrong word, as you can be smart and still believe in that. The problem with it is that the people who believe in it have abandoned Reason, and refuse to look at any of the facts objectively. The political hucksters are not interested in good government, but in "winning" and they rely on the fact that most people are known to be emotional, rather than rational, decision-makers. (As per this study) Political diatribe is therefore more persuasive to the non-rational portion of the population than actual carefully constructed analysis.

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