Now that NASA has confirmed "cold fusion" what will happen?

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience Archive' started by kwhilborn, Jan 12, 2012.

  1. kwhilborn Banned Banned

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    Time to celebrate first of all! Cheers!

    Yesterday was a historic day because one of the most respected scientific organizations in the world (N.A.S.A. National Aeronautics and Space Administration (USA)) has announced that they can replicate Low Energy Nuclear Reaction experiments.

    Here is video press release.
    http://technologygateway.nasa.gov/media/CC/lenr/lenr.html
    http://technologygateway.nasa.gov/media/CC/lenr/lenr.html
    http://technologygateway.nasa.gov/media/CC/lenr/lenr.html
    http://technologygateway.nasa.gov/media/CC/lenr/lenr.html
    http://technologygateway.nasa.gov/media/CC/lenr/lenr.html

    posted link 5 times out of historic excitement for this occasion. This is an official NASA press release video. Dr. Joseph Zawodny Is a senior NASA research scientist, and is known for his LENR patent and attachment to the topic.

    Before people argue this is "not cold fusion" I will agree that this topic header can be misleading but wish it will stand as it is for several reasons.

    What is actually occurring (although some reasoning is still not fully understood) is Low Energy Nuclear Reactions (L.E.N.R.), followed by Beta Decay.

    Do not let the term "Low Energy" mislead anyone. It is just one of the 4 fundamental energies in the world. What we call "low energy" can be millions of times more energy than a chemical reaction.

    Fleischmann and Pons discovered excess heat in their experiments announced to the world in 1989. It was "cold fusion" research.

    In the past 23 years so much effort was made to combine elements in a cold fusion process, that a middle process/effect went unstudied. That is the L.E.N.R. process.

    So "Cold Fusion" is a bad term for this new clean energy source, but it does encompass the positive results from this area of research. Anyone interested in "Cold Fusion" will find this interesting.

    So now NASA is standing behind this process. It looks like 600 million gas guzzling smog producing cars and trucks will soon be replaced by a green fuel alternative. Our homes will be able to produce its own energy and no electrical infrastructure will be required. Gas Stations may disappear.

    What else will occur?

    sell your shares in oil. Forget any other green tech. Sell, sell, sell.
    Maybe buy shares in a magnet company.

    Anything else?
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2012
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  3. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

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    More peer reviewed scientific journal, less PR video please.
     
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  5. Robittybob1 Banned Banned

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    I think the video was a hoax. Joseph Zawodny office had muppets in the top left hand cupboard. Muppets at NASA?
     
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  7. kwhilborn Banned Banned

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    @ spidergoat,
    The science is backed up by NASA. This is not the forum for your discussion. If you wish to research LENR/Beta Decay there is plenty of information on this thread.
    http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=109913

    This discussion is meant to be how this energy will affect society.
    @ Robbitybob,
    I have seen his picture before, and this is Dr Joseph Zawodny of NASA.

    This is also an official NASA website and could only be a hoax if a twin of Dr. Zawodny forged a video and then hacked NASA's press release website to put it up.

    Once again here is the video. You can see it is on a NASA website. Muppets.. Hmmm.
    http://technologygateway.nasa.gov/media/CC/lenr/lenr.html
    http://technologygateway.nasa.gov/media/CC/lenr/lenr.html
    http://technologygateway.nasa.gov/media/CC/lenr/lenr.html
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2012
  8. Ophiolite Valued Senior Member

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    9,232
    So why does a search of Google Scholar fail to reveal anywork by this senior research scientist? Why do Bing and Google fail to return any meaningful hits for his name coupled with NASA? Why are you so gullible? Or is it dishonest?
     
  9. kwhilborn Banned Banned

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    @ Ophiiolite,
    I spelled his name wrong.. I meant Dr. Joseph Zawodny. He is the fellow in the video. I edited the correct name in my previous posts and apologize.

    His name should be all over the internet connected to this field. Dr Joseph Zawodny was discussed in great detail over his slideshow presentation on this topic.

    You can view his slideshow here:
    http://newenergytimes.com/v2/government/NASA/20110922NASA-Zawodny-GRC-LENR-Workshop.pdf

    His name is also on a related energy patent for NASA here:
    http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/ZawodnyJmethodforp.pdf
    Dr Joseph Zawodny is listed as the inventor, but assigns all credit to NASA.

    This video is posted on an official NASA website. Not Youtube.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2012
  10. Rhaedas Valued Senior Member

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    1,516
    Yeah, about that patent.

    http://coldfusionnow.wordpress.com/2011/11/21/review-of-nasa-zawodny-us-patent-application-published-october-20-2011/

    "Overall, the specification is speculative and suspect for lacking any data on actual procedures that have been carried out to successfully produce the results promised."

    It would be great in all this cold fusion/LENR/whatever else it's called if we were discussing actual research, instead of PR links on how things are going to change 'soon'.

    The term 'soon' has been used so much in the gaming industry that it usually means you won't see anything at all. Less hype...I'd like more talk on what actual experiments have been done in the whole LENR discussion. There's science here, even if nothing amounts to it. But the whole posting of links here and there to news of 'future promises'...takes me back to the 50s and flying cars.

    Show me the money.
     
  11. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

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    Note it also says:

    Apparently, no corresponding application was filed either under the Patent Cooperation Treaty or before the Canadian Patent Office. This indicates that the relative importance thought to be associated with the patent filing by those paying the bill is modest.

    Seems to me, if this had the promise that kwhilborn thinks it has, it wouldn't be just a video on NASA's Langley site.

    Seems on one hand we have kwhilborn thinking this will revolutionize society and a single rather unimaginative video.
     
  12. Rhaedas Valued Senior Member

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    1,516
    Also, as pointed out in that link, there's a lot of "may" and "should" in the patent, meaning that it's made to be broad enough to cover things if they work. Obviously, no one, at least filing this patent, is sure if it's a confirmed thing or not. They just wanted to get a patent in, just in case something does come of it.

    Hardly a stop the presses moment.
     
  13. kwhilborn Banned Banned

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    2,088
    @ rhaedas,
    There is another thread for discussion the science. The Widom-Larsen Theory and Beta Decay. This forum is because I am assuming the science is pretty much accepted after the NASA press release video, and this forum is Science and society. It is meant to wonder how this technology will impact us.

    If you missed the NASA press release here it is again on an official NASA website.
    http://technologygateway.nasa.gov/media/CC/lenr/lenr.html

    If you prefer to discuss the topic of science then please do so in the LENR science thread here.
    http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=109913
    Try starting at post # 793 where I break down the WLT in terms people can relate to.

    Things are not changing soon. NASA has only confirmed they can replicate a device that is already being sold. I have avoided mentioning Andrea Rossi much lately in connection with this topic as he remains secretive, but the facts remain that he has set up shop in MA and is producing ecats daily. This is a product you can buy, although the current 1MW plants are a few million bucks each atm.

    This thread is to wonder at how LENR energy will impact our society.
     
  14. Pincho Paxton Banned Banned

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    It will impact society with.... "Where the hell is it?"

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  15. Trippy ALEA IACTA EST Staff Member

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    There will be no impact, because there is no press release.
     
  16. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

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    It's becoming a You-Tube world but I resist this dumbing down.

    My stance is if you can't publish peer reviewed research it doesn't exist
     
  17. michael_taylor Registered Senior Member

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    192
    Has NASA actually confirmed it though? To me it still looks like "NASA employee touts hobby-horse, details absent".

    That's not to say it isn't possible something useful could come of it, but the situation as it stands is quite far away from "NASA confirms".

    I'd call it confirmed when several independent organisations have collected big piles of data and submitted them as papers for the perusal of the international scientific community.

    The issue of patents, is to my mind completely irrelevant. Patents are a business tool, and not a particularly fair or accurate one at that. The USPO is regrettably a complete shambles at the moment, they're totally overrun by patent trolls.

    If your interest is science, my advice is to disregard anything said by the patent office or individuals in youtube videos.
     
  18. kwhilborn Banned Banned

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    2,088
    Wow!

    This is not a youtube video, it is a video from a NASA website. I suppose someone hacked NASA just to fool a few people. I guess they also hired a NASA scientist to play himself in the ruse.

    This is not you-tube. This is a NASA website. If you clicked on it maybe you would see this for yourself.

    NOTE: THIS IS A NASA WEBSITE >>> NOT YOUTUBE!!!!!!!!!!!!
    http://technologygateway.nasa.gov/media/CC/lenr/lenr.html
    http://technologygateway.nasa.gov/media/CC/lenr/lenr.html
    http://technologygateway.nasa.gov/media/CC/lenr/lenr.html
    http://technologygateway.nasa.gov/media/CC/lenr/lenr.html
    http://technologygateway.nasa.gov/media/CC/lenr/lenr.html
    If you cannot tell the difference between a NASA website and a Youtube video then maybe this is the wrong place for you.

    This is perhaps the biggest scientific announcement since "The wheel" and the most excitement I can jeer out of this crowd is "It's a fake press release".

    I understand everyone wanting to call Andrea Rossi a fraud, but doesn't calling NASA frauds make YOU the conspiracy theorists.

    At Michael_Taylor,
    Also (see youtube bit and how a NASA website should not be confused with etc.)

    This is just verification of what we have seen. We have seen slideshows from Zawodny before it is in the LENR link in science, and also from Bushnell, etc. We have seen many papers on LENR and in post 793 of the LENR thread I explain LENR in easy to understand terms. It is composed of the Widom-Larsen Theory and Beta Decay from the most common understandings of this so far.

    If you guys are upset with NASA for confirming this with their press release then take it up with them, you will be hearing a lot more about LENR now that NASA has released this credence bearing video.

    @ Adoucette,
    LENR has many papers on it, and it is described in post 793 of the LENR thread. It is not my fault if you lack comprehension of this process. NASA standing behind LENR is just icing.
     
  19. michael_taylor Registered Senior Member

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    I did, and the link didn't go anywhere, just gave a 404, so I had to watch it on youtube. I'm willing to accept that the link was real for the purposes of this discussion though, and hereby retract my "youtbe video" phrase to be replaced by the words "webcam clip".

    The crux of my reservations is this; is it an official NASA press release, or is it a NASA employee's self-produced video on his own sub-domain?

    It may well be true, but I don't have enough information to make that determination, and whether you realize it or not, neither do you.

    If it is true there will be a proper scholarly paper, and it will in time be published in journals for review by other scientists and the experiment reproduced. Until that has happened I do not count the claim confirmed, regardless of whether I might wish it so. (Which I do.)
     
  20. michael_taylor Registered Senior Member

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    192
    Are any of them peer reviewed? Has a net energy output been demonstrated in a reproducible experiment? If so, I haven't heard of it, and not for lack of looking.
     
  21. kwhilborn Banned Banned

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    The Widom-Larsen Theory / Beta Decay seems to have been peer reviewed by NASA and the other dozen or so entities that are reproducing this experiment.

    In fact; there is also a peer reviewed book on this topic
    http://www.newenergytimes.com/v2/books/2008-LENR-Sourcebook/LENR-Sourcebook.shtml
    however you may find your own sources of confirmation. LENR is widely known as is the WLT and Beta Decay.

    I am unsure if your computer is able to follow links easily perhaps you are using a mobile device, however I will put the NASA link in again.

    http://technologygateway.nasa.gov/media/CC/lenr/lenr.html

    The "sub domain" folder seems to be labelled "media"... in this instance, so I doubt it is a renegade NASA scientist. http://technologygateway.nasa.gov/media/...

    I did make efforts to explain the process in easy to understand terms in post 793 of the LENR topic.(click below)
    http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=2876802&postcount=793

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    This is being repeated successfully and is the point of the NASA video.

    Here are a few entities known to have reproduced this effect.

    If we forget about Andrea Rossi, LENR experiments have been reproduced all over the world, and NASA is only one of many to be replicating excess heat with ease.

    We are at the point where you can even find plans on the internet to build such a LENR device.
    Don't forget.

    Many of these people have demonstrated net energy outputs, and if you are looking I hope this helps narrow your search.

    Hope this answers any of your questions.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2012
  22. Trippy ALEA IACTA EST Staff Member

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    Not required, still not an official NASA press release.
     
  23. RichW9090 Evolutionist Registered Senior Member

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    Sorry, kwhilborn, but this entire Forum is a science forum. You don't get to ignore the rules of evidence by just asserting something and then telling people they have to accept you assertion and discuss the practical utility of a discovery that doesn't exist.

    We will discuss the science of the matter here, as it is directly germane to demonstrating that your premise is false, and therefor your question about the practical application moot.
     

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